Hello,

Today I had detected that some emails does not reach me in this mailing list, in fact the last ones from "leledumbo" about JSON parsing, but Graeme and Michael ones arrive successfully

Ok, hopefully this will make it your way.

________________________________________

Same here...

Regards,
Sven

Sven Barth wrote

Same here...

First Lazarus, now FPC. Can we not switch fpc-pascal to a NNTP newsgroup
- no issues, no spam and more control over your own messages. After all, NNTP was designed from the ground up for group communications. My company server already hosts a couple of groups for various open source projects, for over 10 years. Adding one more will take all of 1 minute.

Regards,
Graeme

On Sun, 30 Oct 2016 18:11:55 +0000, Graeme Geldenhuys () wrote about "Re: [fpc-pascal] Missing
messages" (in ):

[snip]

First Lazarus, now FPC. Can we not switch fpc-pascal to a NNTP newsgroup

+1

José Mejuto wrote

Today I had detected that some emails does not reach me in this mailing list, in fact the last ones from "leledumbo" about JSON parsing, but Graeme and Michael ones arrive successfully

It's because Yahoo publishes mail server records (DMARC) that state that messages from yahoo.co.id must be signed by Yahoo's mail servers (i.e., they must be sent via them), and GMail refuses messages that do not conform to this requirement. leledumbo posts via an nntp gateway, so he violates the policies that Yahoo advertises and that GMail checks.

Newer versions of our mailing list software can work around this by rewriting the from-address, but for that we first have to update our server.

Jonas

server.

Maybe we should indeed do that. For the Lazarus lists that was already done on their server and I'd guess that the problems will only get worse.

Regards,
Sven

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

On 2016-10-30 17:24, Sven Barth wrote: > Same here... First Lazarus, now FPC. Can we not switch fpc-pascal to a NNTP newsgroup

I used NNTP years ago the last time. How does marking read messages work when reading a group with multiple devices (mobile, tablet, notebook, pc)?

In a per-user database on the device I think.

I'm not aware of any NNTP superset that either allows a user to store personal state (i.e. the last-unread message number) on an intermediate server, or allows multiple users to share state by editing existing messages ** . That's not saying that there's not scope for something to be written, and this could possibly mesh with Graeme's comments in fpc-other regarding his custom client.

** Larry Wall, amongst many other people,
broadly speaking NNTP passed its heyday at about the same time that INN v2 was released, and that implementation had sufficient flaws that it hastened the protocol's descent to obscurity.

It doesn't. You need to download, read and mark each message on each device separately. Ever since IMAP has become the predominant email protocol, as servers are no longer short on storage space, there isn't much actually that REALLY makes a point against mailing lists.

For me, it is far more convenient than usenet, as I can receive emails for mailing lists on a separate email address, on multiple devices, which would sync automatically, as they are all set up to use IMAP, messages get automatically filtered into the right folders. The only disadvantages that I see at time is the issue of attachments and posting messages with screenshots for example, which doesn't work (well) on usenet either and is pretty much an advantage of using a forum in most cases...

The issues with emails not showing up is commonly due to the sender playing some shenanigans (intentionally or not), not by the system in general. And the threshold for spam is lower on a mailing list as well, as there is usually more of a vetted signup process than on usenet (where there is none).

Ralf

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Florian Klämpfl wrote

How does marking read messages work when reading a group with multiple devices (mobile, tablet, notebook, pc)?

If you are anything like me, I absolutely hate typing on mobile devices like phones or tablets - it's just to frustrating and slow. So I only use the web interface to my NNTP server to read posts, if I really must or am bored somewhere out and about. But none of those posts are ever that urgent for me to reply immediately.

Then when I get back to my PC, which has a decent keyboard and screen, then I reply using my normal news client (Thunderbird or XanaNews).

Because I don't really use the web interface often, the unread list grows relatively quickly. The web interface has a "catch up" feature to help with that. I can quickly scan the list of messages to see what I read last, then simply use the Catch Up feature to mark everything up to that message number as read.

Regards,
Graeme

Mark Morgan Lloyd wrote

NNTP passed its heyday

I believe NNTP is still just as relevant as the day it was invented. It follows the Unix philosophy. It was designed of a specific need, and is very good at what it does - group communications. It doesn't need HTML or Emojis, all so popular in web forums, because they simply don't enhance group news client takes care of any
other frills or enhancements like advanced searching, storage, filtering etc.

Regards,
Graeme

Ralf Quint wrote

is the issue of attachments and posting messages with screenshots for example, which doesn't work (well) on usenet either

I'm not talking about Usenet - I stopped using that years ago. I host a private NNTP server, like many other companies do. In the 10 years I have done so, I have not had a single issue with attachments in newsgroup posts, so I have no idea what your issue is referring to. Maybe you just used a terrible news client.

Web Forums are a pain - most are not mobile device friendly either. eg: the Lazarus Forums. Then there is also the issue of them not conforming to Unicode standards eg: the Lazarus Forum. HTML messages and Emojis also don't contribute anything useful to group communications.

Regards,
Graeme

This is why I don't use NNTP. I use multiple devices and on most of them my mail client fires up my favourite editor. Using a crappy browser interface doesn't cut it.

Henry

Hi,

Can the discussion about NNTP advantages/disadvantages please be moved to fpc-other, as Tomas asked near the start of this thread?

Thanks.

Jonas
FPC mailing lists admin

list, in fact the last ones from "leledumbo" about JSON parsing, but Graeme and Michael ones arrive successfully

I've had the same problem (I'm using Gmail client on Google Chrome) for months. Unfortunately, all Sven's/leledumbo's mails still arrive to spam folder, even after I mark them as trusted senders. :-/

-begin off-
Oh my, I remember a big problem I had in my email months ago... trying to reduce receiving spams, I tried clients like Thunderbird, however, I forgot to check the option 'keep the emails on the server', losing all mails from client and server, not knowing if someone had contacted me at that time. x( -end off-

[...]Then there is also the issue of them not conforming to Unicode standards eg: the Lazarus Forum.

What do you mean?

Mattias

Mattias Gaertner wrote

> >[...]Then there is also the issue of them not conforming > > to Unicode standards eg: the Lazarus Forum. What do you mean?

The Lazarus forum is supposedly able to handle Unicode, yet from what Juha Manninen found, is that the forum's implementation of Unicode is flawed. The usual UTF-16 implementation shortcut, where only the BMP is supported. So it's not really Unicode enabled, but only UCS2.

Here is Juha's post explaining what he tried in the Lazarus Forum:

http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,32159.msg207013.html#msg207013

The test is simple really:
Write a new message in the Lazarus Forum. Use Gnome Character Map tool (or similar from your OS) and find Unicode glyphs from outside the BMP range. eg: U+1F03E DOMINO TILE HORIZONTAL-01-06 (🀾) or U+1F60E SMILING FACE WITH SUNGLASSES (😎). Making sure your web browser can obviously display those glyphs correctly (having DejaVu Sans installed helps). The press the "Preview" button in the Forum. It pops up a error message and the preview message body is left empty.

Regards,
Graeme

Mattias Gaertner wrote

What do you mean?

[something different]

Mattias, do you queue up your outgoing messages before they are actually sent? Or is it the FPC mailing list acting up on that too?

You message was timestamped Wed 11:19 (my local time), but it only came through today Thurs around 9:05. That's a long delay.

Regards,
Graeme

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

Mattias, do you queue up your outgoing messages before they are actually sent? Or is it the FPC mailing list acting up on that too?

Looking at your message's message header information it seems the issue is at the mailing list end, as your mail server delivered the message promptly, but then got held up for nearly 24 hours freepascal.dfmk.hu

=============================
Received: from scenergyfpc.dfmk.hu (localhost [127.0.0.1])

	by freepascal.dfmk.hu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A04D32952;
	Thu,  3 Nov 2016 10:03:15 +0100 (CET)

X-Original-To:
Delivered-To:
Received: from cc-smtpout2.netcologne.de (cc-smtpout2.netcologne.de [89.1.8.212])
by freepascal.dfmk.hu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09C0A31D2 for ; Wed, 2 Nov 2016 12:19:21 +0100
(CET)
=============================

Regards,
Graeme

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote on Thu, 03 Nov 2016:

Mattias, do you queue up your outgoing messages before they are actually sent? Or is it the FPC mailing list acting up on that too?

Mattias resubscribed to the list with a different email address. The first message of any new subscriber is held for moderator approval to prevent spam bots from subscribing and immediately flooding the list with spam.

Jonas

Jonas Maebe wrote

Mattias resubscribed to the list with a different email address.

Thanks for clearing that up Jonas. Mystery solved. :)

Regards,
Graeme

As a client you cannot lose the messages in an NNTP scenario, they are always available on the server....

Yes, but I've used IMAP in my personal email (this one receiving this message). :-/

silvioprog wrote

Yes, but I've used IMAP in my personal email (this one receiving this message). :-/

IMAP does not work when you have a cap on the size of your inbox at your provider. Then messages must be deleted to stay below the cap. NNTP for me.