Message: 7
Date: Thu, 16 Mar 2006 01:13:57 +0100
From: Mattias Gaertner
Subject: Re: [fpc-pascal] Re: OpenDelphi.org
To: FPC-Pascal users discussions

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On Wed, 15 Mar 2006 15:57:23 -0800 (PST)

--- wrote:

<snip>

FPC is Ok but a few years ago I examined Lazarus codebase and I saw Lazarus is hacking Class parents on-the-fly for its normal operations so I

immediately

lost my interest. Is this changed recently?

If you mean creating the VMT at runtime, then the
answer is: yes, it
still
does.
What are the alternatives?

Mattias

Yep I meant creating VMT at runtime,It does not seems like a good practice to me.

Delphi's streaming system wont work without RTTI, and Delphi's RTTI is only for streaming. RTTI and message/ dynamic methods is embedded in compiler to support VCL and IDE. So writing a Delphi-like IDE without support of FPC team / compiler could be hard work but I still wont think
creating VMT in runtime is way to go. Cross-platform issues and these kind of hacks/ shortcuts is
overcomplicating things in Lazarus codebase, I think.

Alternative?
I prefer a solution based on non ref-counted
interfaces for example (although this may need some support from compiler side e.g UID's for non
ref-counted interfaces/ interface delegation or
something, and means nearly rewrite, so I dont think this will happen)
User-level delphi compatibility is enough for masses (e.g Form designer, properties vs), as long as it have quality/stability, internal workings of components is not so important, but as I said above, with current implementation I dont think Lazarus is
production-ready or it will become.

Sorry for my poor English.

Gokhan

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On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 08:24:12 -0800 (PST)

Overcomplicating is the wrong word, as this 'hack' was used to avoid complication.
By creating a vmt, the rest of the code and any component work without modifications.
The alternative is to create a normal TForm/TDataModule and fake/extend all places, where the fake vmt is used. That are all places where RTTI or the Classname are used. And of course some 'is' and 'as' operators. The vmt itself are a few pretty simple records and they are cross platform. The real hack is the method pointers. They will eventually replaced by fakes.

Can you give an example, how this should work?

Mattias

I'm just stepping in to ask a question, from the point of view that I do not understand the issue... but why lazarus would/will not become production-ready? If I plan to use it as core devel tool... what I do not know (that I should) so that I should absolutely refrain from using fpc/lazarus? Is it stability? Is it usability? What is it?

Gökhan Ersumer wrote

Yep I meant creating VMT at runtime,It does not seems like a good practice to me.

Where is the code that creates VMT at runtime? Just curiosity, because I've being working with Lazarus, but I never noticed it.

It probably doesn't matter from a user point of view.

thanks,

There is no reason why Lazarys would/will not become production ready. Proof: It is in production use already.

Michael.

There is no reason why Lazarys would/will not become production ready. Proof: It is in production use already.

As one of the production users - I can vouch for this. There are several others on this list whom I know are doing production work in Lazarus as well, Graeme and Tony for starters.
One of the things I think works best for lazarus is that it is written in the same language it uses - so every user is a potential contributor (unlike most programs and IDE's users typically CAN program) which is why I think it has such an amazing rate of expansion - we must be averaging about 5 or 6 patches on most days.
So not only IS lazarus production ready - it's getting better at a huge rate, and because it is free software, when you lack a feature, you can add it with relative ease as most of us has done at least once - which is why it grows so well and in response to the current most urgent needs of it's userbase.

Okay enough me-too'ism :)

PS. Michael, I have been chasing deadlines all week, I will draw up a standard interview set tomorrow and send you the questions.

Ciao
A.J.

I always harp on this fact - for example perl is written in C, python is written in C, php is written in C, but if you want to learn from the sources why shouldn't it be python is written in python and php is written with a php compiler. And we all know delphi ide kernel and compiler is written in lots of C and some Delphi for the gui parts, but not all of them. Java is written in C.

Well, just to mention a counter-example: My favourite Ada compiler is written in Ada.

Vinzent.

I used to use an Algol 60 compiler which had been written in a (gradually growing)
sub-set of Algol 60. A new meaning to "boot-strapping" ?

Geoff