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Mailing lists / fpc-pascal / 2017-10

FPC attributes / annotations support

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Graeme Geldenhuys

Bringing a discussion from the Lazarus mailing list to here.

Michael Van Canneyt wrote
It's called Attributes. FPC has it too, but it is not yet in trunk.

Is there a timeline when FPC might support attributes/annotations in trunk?

Regards,
Graeme

Sven Barth
to Graeme Geldenhuys

Am 11.10.2017 14:45 schrieb "Graeme Geldenhuys" <

Show quoted text 9 lines
: Bringing a discussion from the Lazarus mailing list to here. On 2017-09-24 09:13, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote: > It's called Attributes. FPC has it too, but it is not yet in trunk. Is there a timeline when FPC might support attributes/annotations in

trunk?

I do hope to look at it soonish(TM), but no real timeline. Hopefully before 3.2.0 :D

Regards,
Sven

Mattias Gaertner
to Sven Barth
Show quoted text 14 lines
Am 11.10.2017 14:45 schrieb "Graeme Geldenhuys" < >: > > Bringing a discussion from the Lazarus mailing list to here. > > > On 2017-09-24 09:13, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus wrote: > > It's called Attributes. FPC has it too, but it is not yet in trunk. > > Is there a timeline when FPC might support attributes/annotations in trunk? I do hope to look at it soonish(TM), but no real timeline. Hopefully before 3.2.0 :D

Lazarus now supports attributes.

Mattias

Graeme Geldenhuys
to Mattias Gaertner
Mattias Gaertner wrote
Lazarus now supports attributes.

Awesome, thanks for the update.

[dreaming]
Now only if Lazarus could support the Delphi dcc32 compiler. ;-) Boy oh boy... I've been using Delphi XE3 for a month now (new job) - it is SH*T. Constant IDE crashes, online help doesn't work, the bug reporting dialog that pops up after a IDE crash doesn't work (the irony), code syntax check is broken, can't customise the shortcuts etc. I so miss Lazarus and FPC!
[/dreaming]

Regards,
Graeme

fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
Michael Van Canneyt
to Graeme Geldenhuys
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote 13 lines
On 2017-11-27 21:39, Mattias Gaertner wrote: > Lazarus now supports attributes. Awesome, thanks for the update. [dreaming] Now only if Lazarus could support the Delphi dcc32 compiler. ;-) Boy oh boy... I've been using Delphi XE3 for a month now (new job) - it is SH*T. Constant IDE crashes, online help doesn't work, the bug reporting dialog that pops up after a IDE crash doesn't work (the irony), code syntax check is broken, can't customise the shortcuts etc. I so miss Lazarus and FPC! [/dreaming]

You can. In the project options, set the Pre-compiler command to DCC32. Uncheck the compile step.

This is how we compile web projects currently.

You'll be able to compile, but the IDE will not be able to jump to the error location in case of an error. That would require parsing the compiler error messages.

Michael.

Marcos Douglas B. Santos
to Graeme Geldenhuys: Awesome, thanks for the update. [dreaming] Now only if Lazarus could support the Delphi…
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote 8 lines
[dreaming] Now only if Lazarus could support the Delphi dcc32 compiler. ;-) Boy oh boy... I've been using Delphi XE3 for a month now (new job) - it is SH*T. Constant IDE crashes, online help doesn't work, the bug reporting dialog that pops up after a IDE crash doesn't work (the irony), code syntax check is broken, can't customise the shortcuts etc. I so miss Lazarus and FPC! [/dreaming]

Even if Lazarus could support Delphi dcc32, would not be enough because it will still missing the components.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

Marcos Douglas B. Santos
to Michael Van Canneyt: You can. In the project options, set the Pre-compiler command to DCC32. Uncheck the…
Michael Van Canneyt wrote 24 lines
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > On 2017-11-27 21:39, Mattias Gaertner wrote: >> >> Lazarus now supports attributes. > > > Awesome, thanks for the update. > > [dreaming] > Now only if Lazarus could support the Delphi dcc32 compiler. ;-) Boy oh > boy... I've been using Delphi XE3 for a month now (new job) - it is SH*T. > Constant IDE crashes, online help doesn't work, the bug reporting dialog > that pops up after a IDE crash doesn't work (the irony), code syntax check > is broken, can't customise the shortcuts etc. I so miss Lazarus and FPC! > [/dreaming] You can. In the project options, set the Pre-compiler command to DCC32. Uncheck the compile step. This is how we compile web projects currently.

What? I thought that you use FPC for web projects...

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

Mattias Gaertner
to Marcos Douglas B. Santos: On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 4:50 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys Even if Lazarus could support Delphi…
Show quoted text 13 lines
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 4:50 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > > [dreaming] > Now only if Lazarus could support the Delphi dcc32 compiler. ;-) Boy oh > boy... I've been using Delphi XE3 for a month now (new job) - it is SH*T. > Constant IDE crashes, online help doesn't work, the bug reporting dialog > that pops up after a IDE crash doesn't work (the irony), code syntax check > is broken, can't customise the shortcuts etc. I so miss Lazarus and FPC! > [/dreaming] Even if Lazarus could support Delphi dcc32, would not be enough because it will still missing the components.

True. No designer, object inspector. You would have to create them in code.

Mattias

Michael Van Canneyt
to Marcos Douglas B. Santos: On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Michael Van Canneyt What? I thought that you use FPC for…
Marcos Douglas B. Santos wrote 28 lines
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 6:39 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > > On Wed, 29 Nov 2017, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: > >> On 2017-11-27 21:39, Mattias Gaertner wrote: >>> >>> Lazarus now supports attributes. >> >> >> Awesome, thanks for the update. >> >> [dreaming] >> Now only if Lazarus could support the Delphi dcc32 compiler. ;-) Boy oh >> boy... I've been using Delphi XE3 for a month now (new job) - it is SH*T. >> Constant IDE crashes, online help doesn't work, the bug reporting dialog >> that pops up after a IDE crash doesn't work (the irony), code syntax check >> is broken, can't customise the shortcuts etc. I so miss Lazarus and FPC! >> [/dreaming] > > > You can. In the project options, set the Pre-compiler command to DCC32. > Uncheck the compile step. > > This is how we compile web projects currently. What? I thought that you use FPC for web projects...

I do. I meant that I use pas2js as the precompiler command.

Michael.

Marcos Douglas B. Santos
to Michael Van Canneyt
Michael Van Canneyt wrote
I do. I meant that I use pas2js as the precompiler command.

Hmm... right.
I saw yesterday, in the official website, that FPC 3.0.4 was released but I didn't see an email about it...
Is pas2js included in that version?

Best,
Marcos Douglas

Michael Van Canneyt
to Marcos Douglas B. Santos
Marcos Douglas B. Santos wrote 9 lines
On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > I do. I meant that I use pas2js as the precompiler command. Hmm... right. I saw yesterday, in the official website, that FPC 3.0.4 was released but I didn't see an email about it... Is pas2js included in that version?

No, but I plan to make pas2js generally available this weekend.

Michael.

Marcos Douglas B. Santos
to Michael Van Canneyt
Michael Van Canneyt wrote 18 lines
On Wed, 29 Nov 2017, Marcos Douglas B. Santos wrote: > On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 11:10 AM, Michael Van Canneyt > wrote: >> >> >> I do. I meant that I use pas2js as the precompiler command. > > > Hmm... right. > I saw yesterday, in the official website, that FPC 3.0.4 was released > but I didn't see an email about it... > Is pas2js included in that version? No, but I plan to make pas2js generally available this weekend.

OK, thank you.

Marcos Douglas

Graeme Geldenhuys
to Mattias Gaertner: On Wed, 29 Nov 2017 09:07:31 -0200 True. No designer, object inspector. You would have to…
Mattias Gaertner wrote 5 lines
> Even if Lazarus could support Delphi dcc32, would not be enough > because it will still missing the components. True. No designer, object inspector. You would have to create them in code.

Yup, I gathered that much... Hence the "dreaming" tag I used. :)

I just can't believe how bad things have become in Delphi. A commercial "professional" and "enterprise" quality product - it's everything but that! And the asking price is higher than it has ever been before. Amazing what a strong hold Embarcadero has with their "ransome-ware pricing model" on corporate companies. The open source alternatives are simply miles ahead - but corporates are reluctant to budge. Instead they will consider (toy with the idea) a rewrite of a multi-million lines of code project into C#, rather than move to open source development tools where they can keep the huge code base, the same language and reuse the same development skills. How weird?? Have corporates lost their minds.

Regards,
Graeme

fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
Marcos Douglas B. Santos
to Graeme Geldenhuys
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote 13 lines
Yup, I gathered that much... Hence the "dreaming" tag I used. :) I just can't believe how bad things have become in Delphi. A commercial "professional" and "enterprise" quality product - it's everything but that! And the asking price is higher than it has ever been before. Amazing what a strong hold Embarcadero has with their "ransome-ware pricing model" on corporate companies. The open source alternatives are simply miles ahead - but corporates are reluctant to budge. Instead they will consider (toy with the idea) a rewrite of a multi-million lines of code project into C#, rather than move to open source development tools where they can keep the huge code base, the same language and reuse the same development skills. How weird?? Have corporates lost their minds.

I believe that the real problem is to find Object Pascal programmers comparing with other languages.
The companies are thinking in their future.

"Who will maintain this code?"
"No one are using Object Pascal nowadays".

I hear something like this two times per month. :\

However, we know the potential of Object Pascal as a language to do anything. If we have a better marketing, maybe more programmers could have more interest to use the language.

Best,
Marcos Douglas

LacaK
to Marcos Douglas B. Santos
Show quoted text 16 lines
> the idea) a rewrite of a multi-million lines of code project into C#, rather > than move to open source development tools where they can keep the huge code > base, the same language and reuse the same development skills. How weird?? > Have corporates lost their minds. I believe that the real problem is to find Object Pascal programmers comparing with other languages. The companies are thinking in their future. "Who will maintain this code?" "No one are using Object Pascal nowadays". I hear something like this two times per month. :\ However, we know the potential of Object Pascal as a language to do anything. If we have a better marketing, maybe more programmers could have more interest to use the language.

IMO root of problem is in schools. People come to companies from schools and what they have learned in schools, is what they are expecting in companies ...
When I walked to school, we learned Pascal, I am suspicious, that this does not happen nowadays.

-Laco.

Marcos Douglas B. Santos
to LacaK
LacaK wrote 28 lines
>> the idea) a rewrite of a multi-million lines of code project into C#, >> rather >> than move to open source development tools where they can keep the huge >> code >> base, the same language and reuse the same development skills. How >> weird?? >> Have corporates lost their minds. > > I believe that the real problem is to find Object Pascal programmers > comparing with other languages. > The companies are thinking in their future. > > "Who will maintain this code?" > "No one are using Object Pascal nowadays". > > I hear something like this two times per month. :\ > > However, we know the potential of Object Pascal as a language to do > anything. > If we have a better marketing, maybe more programmers could have more > interest to use the language. IMO root of problem is in schools. People come to companies from schools and what they have learned in schools, is what they are expecting in companies ... When I walked to school, we learned Pascal, I am suspicious, that this does not happen nowadays.

Yes.
And I think people are thinking in Object Pascal as Turbo Pascal or something like that.
I believe most don't know about FPC as a modern compiler. Is so simpler using Object Pascal environment than Java or .NET. So, FPC could be more used by schools.

Best,
Marcos Douglas

Graeme Geldenhuys
to Marcos Douglas B. Santos: On Wed, Nov 29, 2017 at 8:55 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys I believe that the real problem is to…
Marcos Douglas B. Santos wrote
I believe that the real problem is to find Object Pascal programmers comparing with other languages.

True, there is less, but we (our company) still manages to find and employ those with suitable Object Pascal skills. We have around 50 developers in our office, and then some in LA (USA) and some in Poland.

"No one are using Object Pascal nowadays".

It seems there is still pretty good interest in Object Pascal in Brazil. We have a 21 year old that just got hired, and he studied Object Pascal in Brazil. I found such a "young age Object Pascal developer" rather surprising, because everybody else I've met that does Delphi/Object Pascal coding has been much older. The 90's generation that grew up. :)

I hear something like this two times per month. :\

We have a recruitment agent that sends any Object Pascal developer he finds to us - if we are actively looking or not. If they are skilled, we find a role for them - and that keeps our dev teams topped up.

If we have a better marketing, maybe more programmers could have more interest to use the language.

Yeah, if the FPC Foundation could help with marketing the language and FPC (and Lazarus), that would be a great step in the right direction.

Regards,
Graeme

fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/ My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
Marcos Douglas B. Santos
to Graeme Geldenhuys
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote 10 lines
On 2017-11-29 23:37, Marcos Douglas B. Santos wrote: > "No one are using Object Pascal nowadays". It seems there is still pretty good interest in Object Pascal in Brazil. We have a 21 year old that just got hired, and he studied Object Pascal in Brazil. I found such a "young age Object Pascal developer" rather surprising, because everybody else I've met that does Delphi/Object Pascal coding has been much older. The 90's generation that grew up. :)

Yes, there is still pretty good interest in Object Pascal in Brazil — I have been
writing in a blog[1] for 2 years and it still growing — but it's not like it used to be in
Delphi 5~7 many years ago.

Show quoted text 5 lines
> I hear something like this two times per month. :\ We have a recruitment agent that sends any Object Pascal developer he finds to us - if we are actively looking or not. If they are skilled, we find a role for them - and that keeps our dev teams topped up.

Very good.

Show quoted text 5 lines
> If we have a better marketing, maybe more programmers could have more > interest to use the language. Yeah, if the FPC Foundation could help with marketing the language and FPC (and Lazarus), that would be a great step in the right direction.

I agree.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas

[1] https://goo.gl/ROmyBb

el es
to Marcos Douglas B. Santos
Marcos Douglas B. Santos wrote
On Thu, Nov 30, 2017 at 5:35 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote:

[...]

>> If we have a better marketing, maybe more programmers could have more >> interest to use the language. >

Given ESR's recent (or not so recent, as I only found it today) rant http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=7711
there may be unexpected support in unexpected places, as even the old towers of C seem to crumble ;)

(lwn.net seems to be attracting a lot of various articles about a lot of languages, but I haven't seen one about Pascal like, ever...)

> Yeah, if the FPC Foundation could help with marketing the language and FPC > (and Lazarus), that would be a great step in the right direction.

(I am not even a subscriber to lwn so my emails probably go to /dev/null, but if the Foundation put up a press release or two there, maybe they'd publish that)

I agree. Best regards, Marcos Douglas

-l.

Victor Campillo
to Michael Van Canneyt: No, but I plan to make pas2js generally available this weekend. Michael.
Michael Van Canneyt wrote
No, but I plan to make pas2js generally available this weekend. Michael.

Hi Michael,

I am very interested in pas2js, right now I am trying to choose which tool use for web development for a project in which the web server was made with FPC, and it would be marvelous if I just could use FPC for the entire project.

A few months ago you provided on this list the link below with a preview of pas2js, but is no longer available and since I have these week a few spare time I would like to test the capabilities of pas2js, if the release is going to take some time yet, would you be so kind to make the preview available again to take a look at what can be done with pas2js?

https://www.freepascal.org/~michael/pas2js-demo-0.8.28.zip <https://www.freepascal.org/%7Emichael/pas2js-demo-0.8.28.zip>

Thanks in advance.

Best Regards.

Victor Campillo
Michael Van Canneyt
to Victor Campillo
Victor Campillo wrote 21 lines
On 29/11/17 14:31, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > No, but I plan to make pas2js generally available this weekend. > > Michael. Hi Michael, I am very interested in pas2js, right now I am trying to choose which tool use for web development for a project in which the web server was made with FPC, and it would be marvelous if I just could use FPC for the entire project. A few months ago you provided on this list the link below with a preview of pas2js, but is no longer available and since I have these week a few spare time I would like to test the capabilities of pas2js, if the release is going to take some time yet, would you be so kind to make the preview available again to take a look at what can be done with pas2js? https://www.freepascal.org/~michael/pas2js-demo-0.8.28.zip <https://www.freepascal.org/%7Emichael/pas2js-demo-0.8.28.zip>

Here is the latest version (from today).

http://www.freepascal.org/~michael/pas2js/pas2js-demo-0.8.37.zip

Many bugfixes when compared to the last version, mainly bugfixes in the compiler and TDataset (Read/Write with update to webserver if need be).

I had hoped to make the sources available this weekend, but I found myself with not enough time :/ It will be somewhere later this week.

Meanwhile the first beta versions of a commercial widget set are available. The first public demo has been given 23 november.
The widget set will work in Delphi and in Lazarus.

Michael.

Victor Campillo
to Michael Van Canneyt
Michael Van Canneyt wrote 15 lines
Here is the latest version (from today). http://www.freepascal.org/~michael/pas2js/pas2js-demo-0.8.37.zip Many bugfixes when compared to the last version, mainly bugfixes in the compiler and TDataset (Read/Write with update to webserver if need be). I had hoped to make the sources available this weekend, but I found myself with not enough time :/ It will be somewhere later this week. Meanwhile the first beta versions of a commercial widget set are available. The first public demo has been given 23 november. The widget set will work in Delphi and in Lazarus.

Hi Michael,

It looks very good, I guess the amount of work to achieve this must have been enormous, kudos to you and Mattias Gaertner.

I was able to compile and test the majority of the examples, since this is a preview I am not sure if you are interested in receive feedback about some minor glitches I found or it is better to wait and test the official release.

Best Regards.

Victor Campillo
Michael Van Canneyt
to Victor Campillo
Victor Campillo wrote 26 lines
On 05/12/17 19:50, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > Here is the latest version (from today). > > http://www.freepascal.org/~michael/pas2js/pas2js-demo-0.8.37.zip > > Many bugfixes when compared to the last version, mainly bugfixes in the > compiler and TDataset (Read/Write with update to webserver if need be). > > I had hoped to make the sources available this weekend, but I found > myself > with not enough time :/ It will be somewhere later this week. > > Meanwhile the first beta versions of a commercial widget set are > available. > The first public demo has been given 23 november. > The widget set will work in Delphi and in Lazarus. Hi Michael, It looks very good, I guess the amount of work to achieve this must have been enormous, kudos to you and Mattias Gaertner. I was able to compile and test the majority of the examples, since this is a preview I am not sure if you are interested in receive feedback about some minor glitches I found or it is better to wait and test the official release.

No, please do report glitches :)

Michael.