Hi,

I replaced my Win10 laptop with a brand new Win11 laptop. (I'm struggeling to "like" Win11, especially the way the taskbar behaves, and the fact that Windows insists on changing my keyboard layout, even when I only ever installed the layout I want.) The old laptop says it doesn't support Win11.

I have a VM with Linux Mint 18.2 Sonya running on my Win10 laptop. I'm not very sure which flavor of Linux Mint it is. I think I have a KDE desktop (KDE 5.36.0) and it has QT version 5.6.1 Of course this version is unsupported ATM.

My laptop:
Intel i5Core 7th gen @2.71 Ghz
8 GB RAM
Intel HD Graphics 620 (128 MB)
Realtek RTL8723DE 802.11b/g/n PCIe Adapter
Note: I'm not sure the laptop can boot from a USB device...

In the past I've had Suze, Fedora, Debian, Ubuntu (hated Unity and killed it within days) (all on real (and older) hardware), but I've come to like the look and feel of my Mint.

So, what version and which flavor of Mint should I give a try? Or should I abandon Mint in favor of another distro? I'll mainly use the system for running Lazarus, no other fancy stuff. So, the browser on that system (I like FF, but can live with something else) must not dislike GitLab (as my current FF on the Mint VM does: at times I cannot even convice GitLab that I'm not a robot... And if I get passed that GitLab insist on sending me codes I need to fill in, and it refuses to remeber my name and password.)
And git (commandline) should support "git switch" (which it didn't on Mint 18.2) (
Although I might want to explore if I can completely move away from Windows in the future, for which I need replacements for:
- ripping music CD's (currently using CD Ripper XP Pro for that)
- managing the contents of my iPod Nano (also > 10 years old. Currently using iTunes (an old version) for that)
- __simple__ image manipulation: resize, crop, rotate, convert (currently using IrfanView for that), so not relying on Gimp please
- view YouTube video's (I remember OpenSuse 10.0 didn't do that for me), but that probably works out of the box for modern distro's?
- I'm already using LibreOffice on Windows, so that's not an issue )

I don't mind experimenting and say abandon one Linux for another one. There will be no critical documents on the system anyway.

When I look at the Mint pages then maybe the XFCE flavor or MATE seem to be best for older systems?

From the past I seem to remeber that the Gnome desktop has the "start

menu" on the top of the screen.
I don't like that, I prefer the "Windows XP to Win10" style of having a start menu on the bottom left and a taskbar on the bottom as well.

If it matters at all (for choosing a distro): I plan to install Lazarus as I've done on my previous systems:
- install fpc from it's install shell script
- download fpc sources
- git clone lazarus main
- build lazarus from source (so not from a package manager)

Of course I need to identify the dependecies for both fpc and lazarus and install those first (that always seemed to be the hardest part in the past).

OK, the list became a litter longer than anticipated, sorry for that.

So, who has experience with Linux on older (7 years) hardware and runs Lazarus on that?
I'm looking for recommendations (and probably some help along the way).

Bart wrote

So, who has experience with Linux on older (7 years) hardware and runs Lazarus on that? I'm looking for recommendations (and probably some help along the way).

I can't comment on Mint (I have it in a VM, but hardly use it).

On my Laptop(s) (for more than 10 years) I have used Fedora (gtk2). But the decision for that was more or less by chance. When I first needed a Linux, I randomly picked that, and stayed with it. (I am still on an older version...)

I have logged into gitlab (using firefox, albeit that too is a bit outdated / I really need to update that system).
- Sometimes have to manually click the "i am human" / on Windows, Firefox, that usually just completes itself
- Using Google Authenticator for 2 factor
- Don't use the Laptop that regularly, don't know how long I can stay logged it.
? (Also deliberately do NOT chose to "remember me", as the Laptop could get lost)

---------------------
Looking through my VM...
I have an Manjaro install. It has an interesting shell, in that it has better completion than other distros (well better than my old Fedora, my very old mint, or my very very old ubuntu)
When starting to type a command that I recently used, then "arrow right" can complete it. (a bit like a late ctrl-r). And the shell suggests it in lowlighted print...
I don't know which other repros have that (probably a mater of installing the correct shell). But IMHO an interesting feature.

About the "windows like" start menu on Mint => I haven't looked deeper into it, but I suspect that is more bound to the Window manager, than the distro. Of course each distro comes with its default WM (dependnig on Gnome/KDE/... choice). But may offer alternative one... But then, that is gonna be a long search to see what is avail....

Overall, I am currently still a Windows man. And dreading the switch to W11 (which I will have to do next...)

I add that Mint Ubuntu is lighter than Ubuntu and can run on Debian Edition if it do not works with Ubuntu Edition. GNU Linux uses packages that are bricks of a software. Ubuntu is like Windows to install softwares. Mint Ubuntu and Mint Debian and a lot of GNU Linux distribs install the lessest needed. So you can see with Linux Mint why you update to a new version of system.

Mint Ubuntu needs however to know how packages are used. I suggest you to use the packages software installed with it before looking on internet to install a software. There is not only Linux Mint distributions. You can use Ubuntu community otherwise but there is also Mint community. Linux Mint so needs only a M2 disk of 60 Go to start quickly. You can put your data in old hard disk with it. Just install manually with / on M2 disk and /home wich are your own datas in hard disk. Before installing GNU Linux, you must know that a cheaper Windows empeachs you to install GNU Linux easily. Just see a LUG to pass it. Welcome on creative GNU Linux !
Matthieu Giroux 13 Rue Fr Tanguy PRIGENT A.15 - 35000 RennesT?l : 09 61 37 01 82 - 06 44 733 008 http://www.liberlog.fr

Le samedi 13 septembre 2025 ? 20:43:06 UTC+2, Martin Frb via lazarus a ?crit :

Bart wrote

So, who has experience with Linux on older (7 years) hardware and runs Lazarus on that? I'm looking for recommendations (and probably some help along the way).

I can't comment on Mint (I have it in a VM, but hardly use it).

On my Laptop(s) (for more than 10 years) I have used Fedora (gtk2). But the decision for that was more or less by chance. When I first needed a Linux, I randomly picked that, and stayed with it. (I am still on an older version...)

I have logged into gitlab (using firefox, albeit that too is a bit outdated / I really need to update that system).
- Sometimes have to manually click the "i am human" / on Windows, Firefox, that usually just completes itself
- Using Google Authenticator for 2 factor
- Don't use the Laptop that regularly, don't know how long I can stay logged it.
? (Also deliberately do NOT chose to "remember me", as the Laptop could get lost)

---------------------
Looking through my VM...
I have an Manjaro install. It has an interesting shell, in that it has better completion than other distros (well better than my old Fedora, my very old mint, or my very very old ubuntu)
When starting to type a command that I recently used, then "arrow right" can complete it. (a bit like a late ctrl-r). And the shell suggests it in lowlighted print...
I don't know which other repros have that (probably a mater of installing the correct shell). But IMHO an interesting feature.

About the "windows like" start menu on Mint => I haven't looked deeper into it, but I suspect that is more bound to the Window manager, than the distro. Of course each distro comes with its default WM (dependnig on Gnome/KDE/... choice). But may offer alternative one... But then, that is gonna be a long search to see what is avail....

Overall, I am currently still a Windows man. And dreading the switch to W11 (which I will have to do next...)

Your post caught my eye because I am also in the middle of a major systems upgrade. Both my (underpowered 6 year old Dell (Intel inside) Laptop), and my (even older ~2012 Athlon II X2 270 Desktop (8GB RAM)).

Both have been upgraded in the last day or two and both to Linux Mint 22.2 (MATE Edition) and both are running very smoothly on this release, with no need to add any extra drivers. That is apart from the proprietary drivers for my Epson printer and scanner.

You said you don't like the start menu at the top. I am happy with that, but a simple configuration option sends it to the bottom. Indeed, you can configure taskbars at top, bottom, or each side and add the items you want to each taskbar. If you want the windows 98 style, then its a simple matter of adding the system menu to the bottom taskbar, and any other items you want, and then deleting the top taskbar.

Personally, I have so much configured on the taskbars, that one is not enough.

Obviously, I have and use Lazarus and that is not a problem on my configuration.? I also need to test out the various packages I support on many different environments, I thus use kvm to support various Linux and Windows VMs. Debian 13 is my current preference as the base for Linux VMs. I have a "prestine" version with lazarus and git, and then clone it for the various test combinations.

Likewise for Windows. At present, it's mostly Windows 7 VMs. Windows 10 is available, but I prefer the Win 7 UI. Again the same strategy as for Linux.

I am also looking to upgrade to WIndows 11 (again because I need the testing environment - Win 7 is getting a bit old). However, even in a VM, Win 11 won't work on an Athlon II. I have therefore taken the plunge and decided to upgrade the whole system. The new motherboard and CPU with 32GB memory has just arrived and will be installed tomorrow. With the latest version of Mint installed, I have high hopes of just swapping the motherboard and the system will just boot up and go, VMs and all (fingers and toes crossed).

In your case, I would install Linux Mint 22.2 dual booted with Windows
11. I did this with my laptop and Windows 10. Always start up Windows first and then install Mint. Then install kvm and re-install Windows 11 as a VM under KVM. As the (virtualised) hardware is basically the same, there is a good chance that the same licence key will work as for your main installation. If you haven't already activated Windows, you might like to play around and experiment with directly booted Windows and compare it with Windows under kvm. The latter should be preferable, especially as you can clone it as many times as you want. You can even tell kvm to automatically start a VM on system boot.

If you are looking for a DVD ripper then HandBrake is my recommendation. Audacity for audio recording, and I also use RipperX for audio CDs.

Good luck with you new installation!

Tony

Another data point:

LInux Mint 21.3 MATE on 9 year old Aspire R3-131T with 2x N3050 2.16 GHz CPU, 8 GB RAM, SSD. This laptop was designed for low power consumption, so it is by no means fast, yet it runs Linux Mint & Lazarus no problem. A clean debug rebuild of Lazarus from inside Lazarus takes about 8 - 9 minutes for reference.

Based on reviews Xfce is supposed to be a bit lighter than MATE, but I had no reason yet to test Xfce.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20250914/209e1b6e/attachment.htm>

I've been a happy user of Xubuntu (XFCE) for years now.? I've tried "standard" Ubuntu a couple of times, but can't figure it out...

Regards
Arne H.

Den 13.09.2025 20:00, skreiv Bart via lazarus:

I recommend a rolling distro like Manjaro. Updating the system works well when you do it often. I do it always when updates are available. Updating a non-rolling distro is always a pain, and so is installing recent versions of SW which are not yet in the distro's own repository.

You should also try KDE as a desktop. It has a reputation of being heavier than XFCE for example, but that is not true. They are about equally light and snappy, yet KDE is full of features.

Juha
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20250914/73f7f3d4/attachment.htm>

I recommend a rolling distro like Manjaro. Updating the system works well when you do it often. I do it always when updates are available.

But doesn;t that automatically give me the latest of the latest (and thus heavier than older versions)?

You should also try KDE as a desktop. It has a reputation of being heavier than XFCE for example, but that is not true. They are about equally light and snappy, yet KDE is full of features.

Is it possible to switch desktop environment after installing?

And one more thing you should be aware of if you distribute your apps to clients. glibc version. I still have old Mint 20.02 to build apps and deploy.

Yes, you can install all might DE's and switch them as you wish.

zeljko

Bart wrote

On Sun, Sep 14, 2025 at 6:57?PM Juha Manninen via lazarus <...> wrote:

> You should also try KDE as a desktop. It has a reputation of being heavier than XFCE for example, but that is not true. They are about equally light and snappy, yet KDE is full of features. Is it possible to switch desktop environment after installing?

Certainly. It is up to which distribution you are using, how easy this is, but in general, yes.

Linux is a multiuser system. Each user can have his own selection of desktop.

Bart wrote

Is it possible to switch desktop environment after installing?

Yes of course on Linux, you can have several installed and then start the one you want.

On Sun, Sep 14, 2025 at 11:13?PM Bart via lazarus <

New versions are typically better. They have bugs fixed and may be optimized. New features can make them a little bigger of course. Linux kernel just got optimizations for cache and Ext4 file system, as an example.
When the new FPC release finally comes, Manjaro will have it in a week or so.

glibc version is an issue if you deliver binaries for customers. Yes.

Is it possible to switch desktop environment after installing?

As others noted, yes, but it may not be trivial. A web search gave this: https://forum.manjaro.org/t/can-i-switch-desktop-environments/11957/12

Juha
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20250914/27c199b0/attachment-0001.htm>

I run XFCE on Manjaro Linux and have some applications from KDE ( KDE Partition Manager for example? ) running under XFCE ...? no probs :-)

So you are not fixed to XFCE only in my example.

But i would go for Linux Mint in your? situation. I could change to next version with Mint tools, that worked :-)

"backintime" or "timeshift" are nice backup tools, so you can change to the last working situation.

Just go ahead and learn from? mistakes ...

Good luck !

John

In your case, I would install Linux Mint 22.2 dual booted with Windows

Not going t bother doing a dual install.
Win10 is dead in the water, so I'm gonna kill it one I decided which distor I'm gonna use.
(Well I could install Tiny11 and dual boot that with Linux, but I already have a Win11 machine now).

I just tried Mint 22.0 XFCE (Live version, not installed yet). It look all-right.
Seemde snappy enough.
Had to find out why it did not react on clicking on my trackpad (at first I thought it simply had frozen, because clicking did nothing, till I figured out that clicking with the designated trackpad buttons worked as expected. Fixed it then in less than a minute).

Just noticed 2 annoying issues while playing around: 1.
The default app that plays mp3's just won't let me place the "slider" to do forward, when trying, the slider just disappear. Happend on an mp3 of about 30 minutes. A shorter one (4 minutes) didn't have this weir behaviour, I could move the slider to anywhere I wanted. 2.
Using FF, the controls in Youtube Shorts (next/previous video) most of the time do nothing at all, or they move the image on screen to the next video (the starting frame) and keep on playing the sound of the previous video.
(I must admit that these controls sometimes play havoc on Win10/FF as well, but weh you re-start Shorst they behave as expected again, so this might be a FF issue, althoug on Win11/FF I've not yet encountered this at all)

Next I'm gonna try MATE and Cinnamom (Live).

B.t.w.: why can't windows create a bootabe USB stick form an ISO image? (Probably because they don't want you to create a non-Windows bootable device...)

For now, I'm just having fun in my spare time playing with distro's.

On Wed, Sep 17, 2025 at 6:57?PM Bart via lazarus <

For comparison you should try KDE, too.
As you noticed, live ISO images are a good way to play with distro's. Virtual machines are even better because you can work with the same installed system for longer and even test how easily it can be updated. (Still recommending a rolling distro...)
A long time ago I installed different distros to computers, used them for a while and then tried another one. Distro-hopping! Then virtual machines were not a thing because of memory limitations.

B.t.w.: why can't windows create a bootabe USB stick form an ISO image?

(Probably because they don't want you to create a non-Windows bootable device...)

Once you have a Linux distro installed, there is a nice app named "SUSE Studio Imagewriter" for copying ISO images. It originates from SUSE but is under GPL and is included in many distros. Manjaro has it, too.

Juha
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20250919/f4ad03a5/attachment.htm>

Well, XFCE, MATE and Cinnamon are the only 3 avaialable download options. Maybe the installation process lets you decide on the desktop environment?

Virtual machines are even better because you can work with the same installed system for longer and even test how easily it can be updated. (Still recommending a rolling distro...)

Weel I have Mint 18.2 with a KDE desktop in a VM on my (soon to be linux) Win10 laptop.
It is slow.
Also Win10 will be abandoned in a short whil and since I have the hardware to play with, I'm not gonna bother setting up a VM on my new Win11 machine.

Once you have a Linux distro installed, there is a nice app named "SUSE Studio Imagewriter" for copying ISO images. It originates from SUSE but is under GPL and is included in many distros. Manjaro has it, too.

Thanks for the tip.

(I expected some "dd " trick)

On Fri, Sep 19, 2025 at 2:51?PM Bart via lazarus <

wrote: Well, XFCE, MATE and Cinnamon are the only 3 avaialable download options. Maybe the installation process lets you decide on the desktop environment?

Apparently Linux Mint doesn't have a KDE version any more. For testing you need another distro, for example Manjaro. It is snappy and fast in my experience. KDE and its underlying QT lib have been optimized a lot during the years.
Manjaro ISO image is over 4GB in size. I recently installed it in one laptop and had to buy a new USB stick because my biggest one was 4GB. Nowadays you can get 64GB sticks cheaply.

Juha
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20250919/b6e8c752/attachment.htm>

Apparently Linux Mint doesn't have a KDE version any more. For testing you need another distro, for example Manjaro. It is snappy and fast in my experience. KDE and its underlying QT lib have been optimized a lot during the years.

I'll give it a try.

Manjaro ISO image is over 4GB in size. I recently installed it in one laptop and had to buy a new USB stick because my biggest one was 4GB. Nowadays you can get 64GB sticks cheaply.

It's hard (here) to get a USB stick < 16 GB.
(I still have USB stick of < 250 MB around, they were expensive back then...)

Well, I cannot seem to create a bootable USB for Manjaro (the program I use on Windows says it's not a bootbale iso).

Now running Mint Cinnamom live: don't seem much difference with XFCE. The live version seems a bit slower than XFCE.
Tried the MATE live version, but that one refused to recognize my Wifi adapter (which is odd, since both Cinnamon and XFCE from same Mint version do).

Tried the MATE live version, but that one refused to recognize my Wifi adapter (which is odd, since both Cinnamon and XFCE from same Mint version do).

PEBKAC of course ...

I replaced my Win10 laptop with a brand new Win11 laptop.

For the time being I have settled for Mint 22.0 MATE It runs relatively smooth.

I have managed to install fpc 3.2.4-rc1 (not using the package manager, downloaded tar archive and used install script). I can built "Hello World".
Yeah!

Unfortunately FF cannot open any page of the forum (except the main page), which seems to be a known issue, but on my Win11 (same FF version) no such problem.
That sucks.

I'll ask for advice on installing Lazarus "the hard way" in a new thread.

-------- Original message --------From: Bart via lazarus Date: 25/09/2025 18:46 (GMT+00:00) To: Lazarus mailing list Cc: Bart Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Off-topic: Moving from Win10 to Linux on my old laptop. Recommendations? On Sat, Sep 13, 2025 at 8:00?PM Bart wrote:>For the time being I have settled for Mint 22.0 MATE>It runs relatively smooth.Good choice. 22.2 is also good?>Unfortunately FF cannot open any page of the forum (except the mainpage), which seems to be a known issue, but on my Win11 (same FFversion) no such problem.>That sucks.I have same problem with both FF and chrome on Linux and android. Sometimes it works,? sometimes it doesn't.>I'll ask for advice on installing Lazarus "the hard way" in a new thread.Is there a hard way? I just down the source and type "make", and startlazarus when done.--Bart-- _______________________________________________lazarus mailing ://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus -------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20250925/d8974f5e/attachment.htm>

I use linux mint and firefox, no such issues ?

Michael.

Bart wrote

> Unfortunately FF cannot open any page of the forum (except the main > page), which seems to be a known issue, but on my Win11 (same FF > version) no such problem.

Michael Van Canneyt wrote

I use linux mint and firefox, no such issues ?

Try this:
Open a private / incognito browser window.
Go to the main forum page: https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/ Click to enter a forum (e.g. Programming General)
Click any post in the forum to view it

(at this point I get directed to this page:
https://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/cookies.html
which has the message "Cookies. The requested action requires that cookies are enabled. The Lazarus team ".
This happens in updated versions of both Firefox and Chrome)

Indeed.

But why would you want to view the forum in a private window ?

I don't think there is any world-shocking info on that forum ? (I may be wrong, since I don't use the forum, so...)

Michael.

With me it's the other way around on Mint.
I can browse in private mode, but get the "accept cookies" page in normal mode.

Just tested on Win11 and it's as you described above. It's insane.

>I'll ask for advice on installing Lazarus "the hard way" in a new thread. Is there a hard way? I just down the source and type "make", and startlazarus when done.

Well, yes?
Not going to use the package manager, since I'm only interested in having main and fixes branch (in my home directory) and I don't want the remnants of current stable (4.x) installed systemwide. I need to figure out which dependencies to install first (like libc-dev, gtk and qt devel libs etc.) before trying to build Lazarus from source.
I've done it before on Mint 18.0, but of course didn't wrte down how to (and of course things will have changed).

Runnigsudo apt-get install build-essential libgtk2.0-devIs a good starting point? for installing the pre-requisites for building lazarusSent from my Galaxy -------- Original message --------From: Bart via lazarus Date: 25/09/2025 21:31 (GMT+00:00) To: Lazarus mailing list Cc: Bart Subject: Re: [Lazarus] Off-topic: Moving from Win10 to Linux on my old laptop. Recommendations? On Thu, Sep 25, 2025 at 8:30?PM tony.whyman via lazarus wrote:> >I'll ask for advice on installing Lazarus "the hard way" in a new thread.>> Is there a hard way? I just down the source and type "make", and startlazarus when done.Well, yes?Not going to use the package manager, since I'm only interested inhaving main and fixes branch (in my home directory) and I don't wantthe remnants of current stable (4.x) installed systemwide.I need to figure out which dependencies to install first (likelibc-dev, gtk and qt devel libs etc.) before trying to build Lazarusfrom source.I've done it before on Mint 18.0, but of course didn't wrte down howto (and of course things will have changed).-- Bart-- _______________________________________________lazarus mailing ://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus -------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.lazarus-ide.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20250925/ca559c1e/attachment.htm>

Using a private window is the easiest way to demonstrate the problem since you won't have any pre-existing cookies. The same thing happens in a standard browser window the first time you visit the forums or after you clear cookies.

(I do almost all research and news reading in private browser instances and almost all website work correctly that way)

There was a typo which prevented login in some cases Should be fixed now