I have been using Lazarus/FPC for a long time on Windows and also on Raspberry Pi Linux.
I also have two laptops on which I run Ubuntu Mate 20.04.3, where I have installed Lazarus and FPC.

That all works OK.

But now I would like to put Lazarus/FPC on a dedicated Ubuntu *Server* 20.04.3 so I don't have to run the two laptops to access Lazarus.

And this brings me to my question:

I have understood that Lazarus behaves differently depending on the desktop environment on Linux, and at the same time I have great problems with using what comes with stock Ubuntu 20...

So I want to get something that is working like Mint and still able to create applications that will run on stock Ubuntu.
And the desktop environment I have to install should be light weight too, no office or video applications etc. Just basic tools for handling the system like GParted etc.

I will access the desktop over the network using RealVNC on my Windows10 PC, so I have to install TigerVNC into the server after the desktop environment is in place.

What should I install?
Will KDE work?
Or does in not matter for Lazarus?

I have done this before using xvnc on a ubuntu server. Xvnc is an X server as far as the server is concerned. You will need a desktop environment such as Mate or KDE on top of it. Lazarus apps work fine. By default, they are linked into the gtk2 libs and you will to have them installed as well. If I recall correctly, xvnc is run under xinetd. The tricky bit is the login prompt. I ended up using xdm. Basic, but does the job. It seems to me .... that the advance of civilization is nothing but an exercise in the limiting of privacy.Isaac Azimov, Foundation's Edge (1982). -------- Original message --------From: Bo Berglund via lazarus Date: 20/11/2021 23:02 (GMT+00:00) To: Cc: Bo Berglund Subject: [Lazarus] Lazarus on Linux, which desktop environment? I have been using Lazarus/FPC for a long time on Windows and also on RaspberryPi Linux.I also have two laptops on which I run Ubuntu Mate 20.04.3, where I haveinstalled Lazarus and FPC.That all works OK.But now I would like to put Lazarus/FPC on a dedicated Ubuntu *Server* 20.04.3so I don't have to run the two laptops to access Lazarus.And this brings me to my question:I have understood that Lazarus behaves differently depending on the desktopenvironment on Linux, and at the same time I have  great problems with usingwhat comes with stock Ubuntu 20...So I want to get something that is working like Mint and still able to createapplications that will run on stock Ubuntu.And the desktop environment I have to install should be light weight too, nooffice or video applications etc. Just basic tools for handling the system likeGParted etc.I will access the desktop over the network using RealVNC on my Windows10 PC, soI have to install TigerVNC into the server after the desktop environment is inplace.What should I install?Will KDE work?Or does in not matter for Lazarus?-- Bo BerglundDeveloper in Sweden-- _______________________________________________lazarus mailing ://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus -------------- next part --------------
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I am using Fedora distributions with KDE installed for my daily work and in a different NFS network using Fedora with KDE for Lazarus/FPC , Fortran and C programming . Previously I was using NFS and Samba together for the SAME NFS server in Fedora and KDE ( because it is easy to manage NFS server computers with KDE with respect to only "Fedora server" which is using command line management ) because of developing my programs also in Windows . ( When Linux is used only ) file names are consistently handled with respect to case sensitivity and file access rights . When Windows is used on the same NFS server through Samba , as a result of editing or touching file names , file names are converted to UPPERcase and their access rights are broken . In such a combined use , it is forced to use ONLY Windows to manage file names and access rights consistently . For that reason I have abandoned the use of Windows and continued with only Linux . It is possible to use Windows if you CAN ACCESS to NFS server from Windows ( if Windows is allowing such an access ) ( for ONLY compilations but never for editing ) ( because it is becoming necessary to adjust file names ( you may use UPPERcase in Linux also but sometimes this may NOT be possible ) and their access rights to enable to use them from Linux ) . In short , the use of such a combination ( as Linux and Windows ) is really difficult .

It is possible to use KUbuntu ( KDE with Ubuntu ) . My choice is Fedora because I find it more easily usable and with respect to their *.rpm repository quality .

With my best wishes for all of you ,

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 2:02 AM Bo Berglund via lazarus <

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Mehmet Erol Sanliturk wrote

It is possible to use KUbuntu ( KDE with Ubuntu ) . My choice is Fedora because I find it more easily usable and with respect to their *.rpm repository quality .

Thanks,
but my server is *already* installed and running (using Ubuntu Server 20.04.3) and I am only wanting to *add* a light-weight desktop environment to be able to use some graphics tools for administration work on the server (such as Gparted etc).
And of course to use Lazarus directly on this server to build some Linux tools etc. But it will be accessed using VNC from my Windows box.

My question is asked from my worry that Lazarus itself will add dependencies on the desktop environment, which do not match the target system environments....

So I am looking for a *desktop environment* to be installed on a server currently *without* a desktop so Lazarus can be used to create apps that will work universally on Linux.

It does not matter what environment you install.

The only thing that matters is that the final environment has the necessary libraries for the widgetset with which you compile your application. Currently that is by default gtk2.

You can install KDE, but then installing Lazarus will most likely add the GTK libraries as a dependency.

So the easiest is to install something that is GTK based, like MATE as used in linux mint.

Michael.

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:33 AM Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <

With KDE I recommend Lazarus with LCL-QT5 bindings. KDE itself is based on QT5.
LCL-QT5 works better than LCL-GTK2 now IMO.

Regards,
Juha
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Juha Manninen wrote

LCL-QT5 works better than LCL-GTK2 now IMO.

What are the issues on Gtk2 that are fixed in Qt5?

Kostas

Please do not assume that I am suggesting you change your server and waste your efforts . My aim is to define my approach with its reasons .

If I were you I would prefer to use KDE . I am very satisfied with my use of KDE . When I use FreeBSD together with LInux I am using KDE also in FreeBSD . My difficulty in FreeBSD due to KDE is the following : KDE is completing missing parts of Linux . In FreeBSD we can say that there are no such missing parts ( it is a complete operating system ) . Management of additional parts in KDE is causing mismatches with FreeBSD . There I do not see any problem . KDE is supplying to me a consistent environment between different operating systems . Important feature of KDE is its restartability of the previous session when the computer is shutdown . To my knowledge , the other desktops are not supplying such a feature . This view may be wrong because I did not try the other desktops other than Gnome .

Up to now I did not encounter a "desktop" which is not "graphical" . The shell in Unix ( variants such as FreeBSD , Linux or others ) are using "shell"
.

You may search the following phrases in Google one by one :

non graphical desktops
non graphical desktop
linux desktop environments
ubuntu desktop environments
ubuntu server desktop environments
ubuntu server web GUI
ubuntu server management web interface

I think you will find a suitable solution for your works

When you study the following pages and their associated subpages , it will be evident that there is no any non-gui desktop but "lightweight gui desktops" :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desktop_environment
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command-line_interface

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Desktop_environments

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:35 AM Bo Berglund via lazarus <

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I am not commenting on the relative merits/stability of the widgetsets, but if OP will install using the system package manager, then the gtk version of Lazarus is most likely what will be installed on an ubuntu based system.

Keeping that in mind, I'm simply recommending to follow the path of least resistance.

Michael.

If you please study TrueNAS , you will see that it is possible to manage a server with a

"Web-based graphical user interface
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_user_interface> with optional SSL encryption"

from your computer using a GUI desktop connected to the server in your local network .

I do not know Ubuntu server in detail but there should be such features .

This means that you do not need to convert your server to a gui desktop using state but to select a suitable web based management system and install it ( or them ) to manage your server from your workstation .

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 11:33 AM Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <

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In this thread there is a point which is not clear for me :

Compile

(1) programs in SERVER by using Lazarus installed in SERVER (2) programs in SERVER by using Lazarus installed in WORKSTATIONS

These are different approaches for the development and use of programs . Therefore these require different steps to accomplish the goals . If the workstations are different as structure ( amd , arm , ... , or FreeBSD , Linux , Windows , ... ) then in a server with a SINGLE structure such as amd or arm , I can not say what we can do in a useful way for the development of programs other than use of cross compilation .

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 2:28 PM Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <

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OP wants to run Lazarus on his server. So he needs to install a desktop environment, because lazarus needs a GUI.

It is possible to run lazbuild on a server without gui, if it is just used to compile. But from whay I understood, the OP wants to actually run Lazarus in a remote X session.

In that case a WEB gui is not useful.

Michael.

I agree with you.

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On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 1:06 PM Kostas Michalopoulos via lazarus <

Different LCL bindings have their own bugs, and so do the underlying libraries GTK2, QT5 etc.
LCL-QT5 and LCL-GTK2 both have bugs but LCL-QT5 has less of them. The underlying QT5 is also less buggy than the old GTK2.

I agree with Michael. You need GTK2 development libraries initially when building Lazarus from sources with "make".
LCL-QT5 bindings require the libQT5Pas (IIRC) which must be installed manually in some systems. Manjaro + KDE has it nicely as a dependency. Once you have them both installed you can freely select your favorite widgetset.

Juha
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I mean:
Compile programs on the server (Lazarus running on the server) for use on any Linux machine based on The PC architecture (AMD/Intel CPU).

other than use of cross compilation .

I have never ever managed to set up a dev environment that could cross-compile, so I have to keep at least 3 different dev environments:

- Linux on Raspberry Pi (ARM)
- Linux on PC platform (AMD/Intel CPU)
- Windows on PC (AMD/Intel CPU)

By compiling on the target "metal" I am sure the programs will run properly...

And for Linux I access the computers via VNC when I work. So I use my Windows 10 box as the work environment always.

On Sun, Nov 21, 2021 at 10:55 PM Bo Berglund via lazarus <

I have read all of the messages in this thread starting from your initial email once more .

When you compile a program , it is possible to execute it another Windows machine by assuming
that the next Windows version is able to execute the program .

In the Linux ( or Unix ) world , this is NOT the case : Each Linux version of each Linux distribution has its OWN
library versions : There is NOT any standard library usage plan among the Linux versions or Linux distributions .
Therefore , it is very likely ( with respect to me : exactly ) that you will NOT be able to run your program in arbitrary Linux distributions IF YOU USE DYNAMICALLY LOADED LIBRARIES . I do not know the situation when you use statically
linked libraries . it is always not possible to use static linking because each library does NOT have static libraries .
When there is not a static library , you need to compile the respective sources to obtain a static library
WITH A SERIOUS CONSIDERATION OF STATIC LINKING POSSIBILITY BY STUDYING ITS LICENSE VERY CAREFULLY .

I can explain the situation with an example .

I have a Fedora Linux computer having a large number of repositories stored in a different disk from the Fedora 28 installed disk . During a country-wise electric fluctuation my Fedora 28 disk has been broken . I have installed Fedora 25 . Now ALL of the programs are NOT executable because of dynamically loaded ( *.so ) libraries by giving an error message about *.so library mismatch . I will install Fedora 35 . This will also require recompilation of ALL of the repositories one by one .

Therefore , my opinion is your plan WILL NOT work if you use *.so libraries , and try them to execute in different Linux computers with different *.so files . You may think that ALL of the *.so files of the libraries ARE the SAME : NO !
In your executable , the EXACT library version is recorded . During execution of the program , the *.so file is NOT loaded , but its EXACT matching name is searched : If it is NOT found , it is giving a message saying that the required exact *.so file is not found : *.so file with exact version number : for example : *.so.5.4.3 .

You need to check the static linking case whether it is possible to execute your program in different Linux ( versions , distributions ) . I do not know the situation based on experiments because in my NFS server , all of the clients have the same Fedora version .

Version of the NFS server may be different from the client versions ( assume NFS versions are the same or compatible ) . In the NFS server , there are the following directories alongside the source directories :
Executables_for_FreeBSD
Executables_for_Linux

Previously , also

Executables_for_Windows_XP
Executables_for_Windows_7

I could NOT be able to connect to Windows_7 . Due to this I have removed WIndows directories and I have discontinued
use of Windows .

From any client I am compiling ( Lazarus is installed in the client , BUT

you can install Lazarus in the server IF YOUR VERSIONS OF CLIENTS and SERVER ARE THE SAME in LINUX if you use *.so libraries and use it from the clients . If you use static linking , please check the result . Do not forget that you will not be able to install Lazarus for FreeBSD in server because it is Linux ( or different from the client ) ) programs by storing its executables into respective Linux or FreeBSD directory and execute the programs in any client from its respective directory .

As a result , my idea about your setup is : It requires adjusting parameters of the components to obtain a consistent work environment with respect to your needs and availability of your tools .

If you want to sell your program(s) to Linux user customers : My suggestion would be ( you may think a much more suitable method , or some other experts may suggest other ways ) :

Ask them to learn their Linux distribution and its version and hardware kind .
On a similar hardware and Linux distribution and version , install Lazarus , compile your program(s) from your source repository and supply your program(s) to your customer .

Mehmet Erol Sanliturk

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