Crowdfunding para acelerar o desenvolvimento do pas2js e Lazarus Widgetset com pas2js.

Criação de um fundo de doação para criação, manutenção e melhorias de um pas2js widgetset no Lazarus, compatível com os principais componentes da LCL. Onde esse fundo custear o desenvolvimento acelerado desse projeto com envolvimento dos principais envolvidos por ambos os projetos pas2js e Lazarus oferecendo um produto competitivo no mercado de hoje e trazendo a possibilidade de códigos Legados em lcl desktop sejam reaproveitados para uma plataforma web gerando grandes avanços para a comunidade, seus apoiadores e usuários.
Peço o envolvimento de todos os interessados para criar um ecossistema colaborativo e organizado. centrado nos criadores dos respectivos produtos onde com essa ajuda monetária podem focar exclusivamente a esse projeto, trazendo um ganho gigantesco ao nosso tão amado FPC/Lazarus/Pas2js Peço que a comunidade discuta essa solução junto aos mantenedores dos projetos e os responsáveis viabilize a possibilidade de um Crowdfunding onde crie um valor de meta para tais implementações, pois num mundo de grandes empresas tais como Google (Material Design, AngularJS, Flutter), Oracle(Java), Twitter(Bootstrap), Apache(Cordova) e grandes soluções Open Source tais como JQuery, React, Vue, Ionic dentre muitos outros. O produto final usando essas soluções são excelentes programas para web e até outras plataformas. Esses "Concorrentes" estão nos deixando para trás numa velocidade incrível pois há muito dinheiro envolvido nesses projetos por grandes empresas financiadoras e somente trabalhando de forma semelhante (com financiamento dos interessados) poderemos ver nossas soluções
(FPC/Lazarus/Pas2js) tão atrativas e competitivas quanto os citados acima e muitos outros não citados.

>>

Essa mesma ideia de Crowdfunding poderia ser usada também para o projeto fpdebug e outros no qual ajudaria muitos desenvolvedores fpc e Lazarus/IDE.

A Base seria criar um valor para financiar uma mudança/projeto específico, obter as doações, manter quem estiver no grupo de doadores num grupo ou fórum fechado para tirar dúvidas mais genéricas e após a conclusão todo o código permanecer na licença LGPL como acontece hoje. Assim satisfaria os interesses de um grupo financiador como também a comunidade Open Source.

Com ideias dessa forma seria útil até para empresas que poderiam pegar alguns projetos para fazer sob o controle de uma Ong FPC no qual controlaria esses fundos e com a conclusão do projeto realizado receberia pelo serviço realizado com fundos de doações. Dessa forma crescendo cada vez mais o projeto FPC/Lazarus/Pas2JS tanto com apoio de desenvolvedores individuais, pequenos grupos e também empresas.Não fugindo das práticas Open Source, não prejudicando a comunidade e fomentando um novo nicho de apoiadores.

Atenciosamente

Edivando, Brasil

----------------------------- Google Translate
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Crowdfunding to speed up the development of pas2js and Lazarus Widgetset with pas2js.

Creation of a donation fund for the creation, maintenance and improvements of a pas2js widgetset in Lazarus, compatible with the main components of LCL. Where this fund finances the accelerated development of this project with the involvement of the main stakeholders of both pas2js and Lazarus projects offering a competitive product in today's market and bringing the possibility of legacy codes in the desktop to be reused for a web platform generating great advances for the community, its supporters and users. I urge the involvement of all stakeholders to create a collaborative and organized ecosystem. centered on the creators of the respective products where with this monetary aid they can focus exclusively on this project, bringing a gigantic gain to our beloved FPC / Lazarus / Pas2js I ask the community to discuss this solution with the project maintainers and the responsible ones to enable the possibility of a Crowdfunding where it creates a goal value for such implementations, because in a world of big companies such as Google (Material Design, AngularJS, Flutter), Oracle (Java), Twitter (Bootstrap), Apache (Cordova) and great Open Source solutions such as JQuery, React, Vue, Ionic among many others. The end product using these solutions are excellent programs for web and even other platforms. These "Competitors" are leaving us behind with incredible speed because there is a lot of money involved in these projects by large financing companies and only working in a similar way (with stakeholder financing) we can see our solutions (FPC / Lazarus / Pas2js) so attractive and competitive as mentioned above and many others not mentioned.

>>

This same Crowdfunding idea was also ideal for the fpdebug project and others It is not necessary to have many developers like fpc and Lazarus / IDE.

The basic designation to create a specific funding project, get the donations, What is being a donor group?
and after completion of the LGPL code remains as it does today. This would of a financial group as well as an Open Source community.

With Ways Destined To Be Business To Collect Some Projects To Do under the control of an NGO FPC in which it controls funds with the Provision for the service performed with donation funds. Increasingly, the FPC / Lazarus / Pas2JS project with individual support groups, small groups and also businesses. Do not shy away from Open Source practices, not harming the community and fostering a new niche of supporters.

graciously

Edivando, Brazil

Why do you need a separate crowdfunding effort, if the Free Pascal and Lazarus foundation has been created specially for this ?

Michael.

Boa tarde,

Vejo que para projetos específicos onde os usuários estão procurando soluções com uma rapidez maior seria viável essa modalidade pois dessa forma o usuário poderia cobrar do andamento do processo pois de certa forma estaria ajudando diretamente no pagamento do projeto, porém sem direito aos fontes por se manterem open source.

Eu mesmo tenho minha empresa e tenho que colocar na balança o tempo necessário para uma solução ficar pronta (widgetset Pas2JS) ou comprar um produto fechado (TMS Web Core) .

Acho que dessa forma fica mais fácil pra quem precisa avaliar cenários para investir em escolhas tecnológicas.

Sinto que hoje da forma que esta, fica um pouco vago de quando um solução se tornará real para o uso pois depende de muitos contribuidores nos quais a maioria da comunidade nem sabe quem são os participantes e com um mercado tão competitivo e com tantas soluções para Web Open Source e de aparência maravilhosa, sinto que se a comunidade pascal não se tornar mais revolucionária em alguns pontos poderemos ficar pra traz. Onde acarretaria falta de mão de obra qualificada para manutenção e inovações em nossos produtos.

Em um mundo desktop acho que as soluções FPC/Lazarus estão num grau de maturidade muito alto permitindo ao seus usuarios alta competitividade nos seus produtos.Porém no mundo mobile e web no cenário atual sinto que estamos bem atrasados e não custaria unir esforços com novas opções para investimento direto. Exemplo uma empresa oferece uma solução widgetset para Android com custo de X, as pessoas interessadas investem neste fundo até chegar ao valor contratado e a empresa desenvolve a solução liberando ao projeto FPC/Lazarus as bibliotecas desenvolvidas.Tudo isso controlado por um órgão FPC/Lazarus onde ditaria as mudanças necessárias, os cronogramas e tudo relacionado ao projeto.

Atenciosamente

Edivando, Brasil

----------------------------- Google Translate
-------------------------------------

Good afternoon,

I see that for specific projects where users are looking for solutions with greater speed would be feasible this way because in this way the user could charge of the progress of the process because in a way it would be directly aiding in the payment of the project, but without the right to the sources to remain open source.

I myself have my company and I have to put in the balance the time it takes for a solution to be ready (widgetset Pas2JS) or buy a closed product (TMS Web Core).

I think this way it is easier for those who need to evaluate scenarios to invest in technological choices.

I feel that today as it is, it is a little vague of when a solution will become real for use because it depends on many contributors in which the majority of the community does not know who the participants are and with such a competitive market and with so many solutions for Open Source Web and wonderful appearance, I feel that if the paschal community does not become more revolutionary in some points we can stay behind. It would entail a shortage of skilled labor for maintenance and innovations in our products.

In a desktop world I think that FPC / Lazarus solutions are in a very high degree of maturity, allowing its users to be highly competitive in their products. But in the mobile and web world in the current scenario, I feel that we are well behind schedule and would not cost to join forces with new options for direct investment. Example a company offers a widgetset solution for Android with cost of X, the interested people invest in this fund until reaching the value contracted and the company develops the solution releasing to the project FPC / Lazarus the libraries developed. All this controlled by an organ FPC / Lazarus where it would dictate the necessary changes, the schedules and everything related to the project.

graciously

Edivando, Brazil

PM Michael Van Canneyt wrote

Why do you need a separate crowdfunding effort, if the Free Pascal and Lazarus foundation has been created specially for this ?

Pas2JS was supported by the foundation more than any other project, if I understood right.
Now looking at its home page:
https://foundation.freepascal.org/
I don't see Pas2JS even listed in the projects page. Why? The main page says about donations:
"If you would like to donate money for a specific project, see our donations page page. A list of past donors can be seen in our Hall of fame."
However there is no way to donate for a specific project. The money goes into a black hole. Its usage for various projects is not reported even afterwards.
I understand it is a turn-off for people like Edivando who want to support a particular sub-project.

When the foundation was discussed, I remember there was a request to publish data about the money flow and projects supported. I don't find data anywhere else either. Google+ community was closed. Are there other places to look at?
I think "Google+ community" should be removed from the About page.

Anyway, I understand Edivando's motive to support a particular project using an open and controlled crowdfunding process instead of puoring the money into a black hole from where no information leaks out.

Regards,
Juha

On Tue, Dec 18, 2018 at 7:27 PM Juha Manninen via lazarus <

My donations still appears as active and I am happy with the current status:

https://foundation.freepascal.org/projects/pastojs https://foundation.freepascal.org/projects/webassembly-support -------------- next part --------------
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Boa noite,

Estava me informando melhor a respeito da fundação freepascal ([url]https://foundation.freepascal.org/about[/url]) para onde os fundos de doações são redirecionados. Uma Página Web pouco profissional para os padrões de hoje. O estatuto da fundação diz estar sendo traduzido para o inglês e devido a isso não está disponível no site (muito estranho isso devido a tanto tempo de existência da fundação) e a opção para afiliação está indisponível pois o estatuto está sob revisão(outra coisa muito estranha para uma fundação com tanto tempo de existência e existir apenas 3 filiados).

Acho que com uma política assim quem usa as ferramentas FPC/Lazarus/Pas2JS como uma solução completa para sua Software House fica um pouco apreensivo por uma parte fundamental da fundação (A Gestão da fundação) ficar em segundo plano.

Vejo que se a comunidade quer ser projetos feitos usando as soluçoes FPC/Lazarus competitivas no cenário de TI temos que modernizar também essa situação pois parece que o interesse da comunidade não está sendo ouvida pela fundação da melhor forma possível.

Eu mesmo estou tentando dar ideias para uma revitalização da comunidade com novos nichos de contribuições e fui questionado pelo Michael com o seguinte texto:

[i]“Why do you need a separate crowdfunding effort, if the Free Pascal and Lazarus foundation has been created specially for this ?

Michael.”. [/i]

Não sei dizer se o michael seria o mesmo “Michael Van Canneyt (secretary)” secretário da fundação Free Pascal, mais se for o mesmo fica um pouco estranho questionamentos como esse pelo cargo que ele representa.

Busco acima de tudo que meus produtos construídos com as soluções FPC/Lazarus sejam competitivos no mercado e somente com uma política de colaboração transparente e efetiva vejo isso possível.

Repito gostaria de ver iniciativas crowdfunding onde esse processo de doações fosse mais transparentes e mais efetivas para o interesse dos doadores.

Peço a colaboração da comunidade que discuta sobre o assunto pois não adianta dar prioridade a detalhes pontuais tais como ícones, métodos anônimos, compatibilidade com alguma plataforma em desuso por grande período, quando o futura está jogando na nossa cara que só vamos permanecer com os nossos projetos (Sistemas e Códigos Legados) se o grupo central de desenvolvimento FPC/Lazarus/Pas2js forem transparentes com relação aos rumos a seguir, bem remunerados e permitir a participação da comunidade com relação às tomadas de decisão sobre os novos horizontes a seguir. Coisa que nao estou encontrando a cada dia que passa me aprofundando mais na comunidade.

Atenciosamente

Edivando, Brasil

----------------------------- [b]Google Translate[/b] -------------------------------------
Good night,

I was being told more about the freepascal foundation ([url]https://foundation.freepascal.org/about[/url]) where donor funds are redirected. An Unprofessional Web Page by today's standards. The statute of the foundation claims to be being translated into English and because of this it is not available on the site (very strange because of the existence of the foundation) and the option for membership is unavailable because the statute is under review strange for a foundation with so much time of existence and to exist only 3 affiliated).

I think with such a policy anyone who uses the FPC / Lazarus / Pas2JS tools as a complete solution for their Software House gets a little apprehensive as a key part of the foundation (The Management of the foundation) stand in the background.

I see that if the community wants to be projects made using the competitive FPC / Lazarus solutions in the IT scenario we have to modernize this situation as well, it seems that the interest of the community is not being heard by the foundation in the best possible way.

I myself am trying to give ideas for a revitalization of the community with new niches of contributions and I was questioned by Michael with the following text:

[i]"Why do you need a separate crowdfunding effort, if the Free Pascal and Lazarus foundation has been created specially for this?

Michael. "[/i]

I do not know if Michael would be the same "Michael Van Canneyt (secretary)" secretary of the Free Pascal Foundation, but if it is the same it gets a little strange questionings like this for the position he represents.

I seek above all that my products built with FPC / Lazarus solutions are competitive in the market and only with a transparent and effective collaboration policy do I see this possible.

I repeat would like to see crowdfunding initiatives where this donation process would be more transparent and more effective for the interest of the donors.

I ask the collaboration of the community that discusses the subject because it is no use to give priority to specific details such as icons, anonymous methods, compatibility with some platform in disuse for a long period, when the future is playing in our face that we will only stay with our projects (Legacy Systems and Codes) if the central FPC / Lazarus / Pas2js development group are transparent with respect to the next, well-paid course and allow community participation in decision-making on the new horizons to follow. Thing that I'm not finding every day that passes me delving deeper into the community.

graciously

Edivando, Brazil

[url]https://foundation.freepascal.org/about[/url]

[b]About[/b]

The Free Pascal and Lazarus foundation is a non-profit organization whose goal it is to promote Free Pascal and Lazarus programming. It also acts as a sponsor for Free Pascal and Lazarus development: it attempts to raise funds and sponsors specific features in the Lazarus and Free Pascal projects. It does not own the Free Pascal or Lazarus code base, and the inclusion of new features is always subject to the approval of the Free Pascal or Lazarus teams.
Legalese
The Foundation has been established as a non-profit foundation in The Netherlands as "Stichting Programming Free Pascal & Lazarus Foundation." It has its official address at Edelstenenbaan 21, 3402 XA IJsselstein. The bylaws and official statutory documents of the foundation will be published here, as soon as they have been translated to english. Currently, the foundation has 3 members:
Detlef Overbeek (Chairmain)
Michael Van Canneyt (secretary)
Boian Mitov (Treasurer)
People wishing to become a member can apply here.

[url]https://foundation.freepascal.org/register[/url]

[b]Register as a member[/b]

The bylaws of the foundation are currently under revision. As soon as they are complete, they will be put on the website for your consideration,
and at that time the registration page will be completed.

I know that I haven't donated because there is no breakdown of funds spent, technical items achieved, conferences held, books published, articles printed, industry partners, etc.

There doesn't seem to be any organization or progress with the foundation. There isn't even a listing of FPC/Lazarus users groups worldwide, etc.

It doesn't seem like a Tue, Dec 18, 2018, 2:42 PM Edivando via lazarus <

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Yes.

Now looking at its home page: https://foundation.freepascal.org/ I don't see Pas2JS even listed in the projects page. Why?

Of course it is, it's even in the menu.

https://foundation.freepascal.org/projects/pastojs

All the money currently donated - with exception of a donation for WebAssembly - has been used for pas2js.

I understand it is a turn-off for people like Edivando who want to support a particular sub-project.

Why ? All you need to do is contact us.
All mails are answered.

When the foundation was discussed, I remember there was a request to publish data about the money flow and projects supported.

I have not seen such a request. At least, I have no recollection of it.

If you want us to report publicly on the website:
I don't think that this is necessary, but this can be discussed.

In each case, there is nothing to hide: as said, most of the money has been paid to Mattias to develop pas2js.

And both the chairman and me have added - out of our own pockets - to this a multiple of the amounts donated, otherwise pas2js would never have been realized.

Your accusation of a black hole is therefor
a) wholly ungrounded. Ask, and you will get answers. c) a sign you do not trust us.
Given that you can profit from the results at no cost, this is strange.

Or maybe you simply want to be at the steering wheel yourself ?

I will remind you that I have for many years asked people on the mailing lists to create a foundation or some legal structure to be able to collect funds for FPC/Lazarus.

No-one stepped up, so I had to do it myself with the help of an enthousiast supporter outside of the FPC/Lazarus community, the editor of Blaise Pascal magazine.

Talk is cheap.

Michael.

AM Jy V wrote

My donations still appears as active and I am happy with the current status: https://foundation.freepascal.org/projects/pastojs https://foundation.freepascal.org/projects/webassembly-support

Ah damn, it is listed as "Pascal to Javascript converter" of course. I looked for pas2js, too quickly apparently, and missed it. Sorry.

Where do you see your donations as active? I guess I just cannot find the information that others can see.

Regards,
Juha

I know that I haven't donated because there is no breakdown of funds spent, technical items achieved, conferences held, books published, articles printed, industry partners, etc.

Technical items achieved: they are listed in the projects. Even pas2js is there.

There doesn't seem to be any organization or progress with the foundation. There isn't even a listing of FPC/Lazarus users groups worldwide, etc.

I wouldn't even know where to find them myself ?

It doesn't seem like a every page contains an invitation to contact us.

Mails will end up in 2 you tried this ?

I will admit without reservation that the website looks awful. I am not a HTML wizard, in fact, I am very something had to be made.

So if someone wants the job of webmaster/webdesigner: he can have it.

The foundation currently exists of 2 persons, we simply do not have time to be busy with the website. We want to get technical things done: pas2js demands an awful lot of time, and we honestly believe this is ensuring the future of pascal. Today I was at a meetup for TMS Web Core, built on pas2js and I think we're managing to convince other developers of this.

So if someone wants to help out with the website, drafting bylaws and whatnot: Feel free to mail me. You will get all info you need or want.

You will then notice that the perception of not being open is without ground, but simply a consequence of the horrible lack of time we experience.

Michael.

AM Michael Van Canneyt wrote

Of course it is, it's even in the menu. https://foundation.freepascal.org/projects/pastojs

Yes, sorry. Somehow I missed it.

I have not seen such a request. At least, I have no recollection of it.

Maybe it was only me asking it in some e-mail long time ago. Not sure.

And both the chairman and me have added - out of our own pockets - to this a multiple of the amounts donated, otherwise pas2js would never have been realized.

Yes, I remember and I appreciate it.

I understand I should work to improve the issues myself instead of only writing. Still, the point here is that some crowdfunding sites are very attractive because they show all relevant information openly. They show how much more money is needed for a certain project to happen. I have wondered how they can collect so much money even for gadgets that are in an early planning stage.

My black hole theory was not accurate, sorry about that. I believe you give all information when asked, but it is not obvious by looking at the web page.
I really think all relevant data should be there, presented in an attractive way to "sell" the sub-projects.
It would include Donate-buttons for each sub-project separately and other material to praise and advertise them.

Regards,
Juha

AM Michael Van Canneyt wrote

So if someone wants the job of webmaster/webdesigner: he can have it.

+1
Such a person would be important to raise the foundation's visibility and perception to a new level.
I do not volunteer now for various reasons but I know there are good webdesigners around here.

Juha

Essa ideia de Crowdfunding seria tão maravilhosa para a comunidade que beneficiaria interessados em desenvolver soluções e comunidade como também a fundação onde por contrato na formulação do Crowdfunding uma porcentagem do dinheiro seria redirecionado para a fundação para manter os custos atuais como também investir melhorias nos fóruns, servidores e publicidade para a comunidade

Atenciosamente

Edivando, Brasil
----------------------------- Google Translate
-------------------------------------

This idea of ​​Crowdfunding would be so wonderful to the community that it would benefit interested in developing solutions and community as well as the foundation where by contract in the formulation of Crowdfunding a percentage of the money would be redirected to the foundation to maintain the current costs as well as to invest improvements in the forums, servers and advertising to the community

graciously

Edivando, Brazil

Hi Edivando,

Why do you cross post to several mailing lists?
Please google "why cross posting is bad".

Advertising to the community cannot be bought by money, it needs volunteers to do so.
For example write blog articles for the website.

Mattias

I agree fully.

I do not volunteer now for various reasons but I know there are good webdesigners around here.

Great ! Let's hope they have the time and desire to help... :)

Michael.

Ok se vocês pensam assim vou buscar apoio da comunidade para reformular a forma como os projetos do FPC/Lazarus/Pas2js são mantidos pela fundação. Vejo que apenas os interesses de poucos estão sendo priorizados e não da comunidade como um todo.

Vou buscar apoio de projetos sólidos como o Mormort para ajudar nesses esforços e do NewPascal para ajudar nessa reestruturação. Juha estava indignado por nao encontrar os links do pas2js no site da fundação e ficou contestando i michael do motivo e que havia coisa errada. Depois de perceber que o link do projeto pas2js para doação estava como pascal for javascript não questionou mais nada(Acho meio estranho uma reação dessas).

já que os principais mantenedores dos projetos não querem uma participação efetiva da comunidade nos futuros do FPC/Lazarus/Pas2JS acho uma iniciativa muito válida buscar interessados para uma reestruturação de uma nova fundação que coloquei como meta principal os interesses da comunidade.

Vejo que seria melhor juntar esforços para uma comunidade pascal forte e unida para alcançar benefícios a todos, porém da forma que está hoje vejo que nao eh dessa forma que está acontecendo.

Atenciosamente

Edivando, Brasil
----------------------------- Google Translate
-------------------------------------

Okay if you think so I will seek community support to rephrase how the FPC / Lazarus / Pas2js projects are maintained by the foundation. I see that only the interests of the few are being prioritized, not the community as a whole.

I will get support from solid projects like Mormort to help with these efforts and NewPascal to help with this restructuring. Juha was outraged that he could not find pas2js' links on the foundation's website and he objected to Michael's motive and that there was something wrong. After realizing that the link of the pas2js project for donation was like pascal for javascript did not question anything else (I think it kind of strange a reaction of these).

since the main sponsors of the projects do not want an effective participation of the community in the FPC / Lazarus / Pas2JS futures. I think it is a very worthwhile initiative to seek out stakeholders for a restructuring of a new foundation that I have set as the main goal of the community's interests.

I see that it would be better to join forces for a strong and united paschal community to achieve benefits for all, but in the way it is today I see that it is not that way that is happening.

graciously

Edivando, Brazil

PM Edivando wrote

I think it is a very worthwhile initiative to seek out stakeholders for a restructuring of a new foundation that I have set as the main goal of the community's interests.

I am not sure if I understand the translation correctly. Anyway, maybe the structure of the existing foundation should be improved instead of creating a new one.
A better web page providing more information would be a step forward. Yes, I am frustrated by the situation but so are the foundation's members. There are no resources, meaning voluntary people, to improve things. Financial donation is one thing but building the infrastructure is equally important.
The foundation shoud reach a "critical mass" so that more people get involved. It clearly is not reached yet.

Edivando, I tried to explain the situation to you also in a private mail. The language barrier may cause problems here.

Regards,
Juha

śr., 19 gru 2018 o 16:58 Edivando via lazarus
napisał(a):

I will get support from solid projects like Mormort to help with these efforts and NewPascal to help with this restructuring.

Hello Edivando,

I am the maintainer of NewPascal and the only what I have to say in this topic is:

probably with the current and real owner of FPC foundation (Michael Van Canneyt) cooperation between NewPascal and FPC/FPC foundation is rather not possible (even if I would like to), because Michael personally decide to eliminate me from FPC development (AFAIK Michael is also administrator and owner of all FPC infrastructure).

There is lack of any "code of conduct", current FPC should be considered as "uncivilized" project where any of developer/contributor can be eliminated via personal taste of admin in one second.

As far as I understand even if "code of conduct" will be someday created my person/case is outside any "amnesty" because my case is considered as "lesson of maintaining of the project".

An informative blog on the subject.

https://www.sitepoint.com/crowdfunding-software-project/

This is a blatant lie and - to use the popular vernacular - fake news.

You are/were perfectly welcome to come back after a cooling down period. You yourself decided to completely break with FPC, the public mails you sent are testimony to that.

The kind of mail you are sending now is what got you expelled in the first place.

If you keep sending this kind of mails, the chances of getting back on board of course become infinitesimally small.

I understand you have hard feelings, feel free to vent them to me personally, but this kind of public mails is really uncalled for: it spoils the atmosphere for everyone and damages the projects.

Michael.

czw., 20 gru 2018 o 09:33 Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <

napisał(a): This is a blatant lie and - to use the popular vernacular - fake news.

http://lists.freepascal.org/pipermail/fpc-devel/2018-May/038897.html

In general the situation is very simple. You have started FUD and biased talk about my work on "management operators" - every detail of my work was fully explained before merge/commits and fully consulted with other persons in team. Even weak point of "management operators" was exposed by me in public mailing list. TWICE : before "management operators" changes were merged:

http://lists.freepascal.org/fpc-devel/2016-December/037508.html (without any response)

and after commits for "management operators":
http://lists.freepascal.org/pipermail/fpc-devel/2018-April/038869.html

Even more: patch for problems was discussed also in core, you are also one who was involved in conversation (sadly I can't provide link to source because core mailing list is private) where you were happy about my fixes/work (!sic).

My only fault: probably my first reaction on your FUD and biased talk was overreacted. I should be more patient.

Anyway: Merry Christmas!

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Was this a MLM Vibes advertisement all the time?
Oh boy!

Juha

Can we add a list of business to never do business with as an foundation charter point, and add "MLM Vibes" to it? I'll help write that up.

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Juha Manninen wrote

Was this a MLM Vibes advertisement all the time? Oh boy!

The same thought crossed my mind :)

And if MLM means Multi-Level-Marketing (aka pyramid scheme), I want nothing to do with it.

If we decide on using a crowdfunding platform, I would rather go for one of the sites mentioned here:

https://www.crowdfunding.com/

Michael.

Travis Ayres wrote

Can we add a list of business to never do business with as an foundation charter point, and add "MLM Vibes" to it? I'll help write that up.

+1 :)

Michael.

Something like, "The following companies and/or persons have violated foundation rule {whatever} and will not receive consideration from the Foundation without {process}" and add MLM Vibes to it, so they can officially never be considered for anything, ever?

Also, as far as processes go, there needs to be a well defined criteria for the application of monies towards Lazarus/FPC - "Foundation will only consider for approval entities with administrative costs for fundraising below {extremely low amount, fixed as a percentage and dollar amount} in order to ensure funds will mainly be used for the preservation and furtherance of Lazarus/FPC, in consideration of Foundation's Free and Open Nonprofit position."
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There needs to be provisions for making people full time to work on FPC/Lazarus as well -
"Foundation makes provision {document or processes} for administrative costs, in order to make their application transparent and in consideration of the valuable time of contributors, with Foundation approval and as documented in {Living document Y}".

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pt., 21 gru 2018 o 19:28 Travis Ayres via lazarus <

This would be good. I think that clear rules are always fine. Also the very important is to not concentrate all power in the hand of one person without any control (for example in much smaller project like NewPascal I don't have exclusive control). Some time ago I was involved in many parts of work in FPC compiler (generics.collections, management operators other fixes for compiler and new features in progress) but in the case of personal conflict, project has no instance of appeal or regulations or any code of conduct. So instead of coding I need to waste time to shows what happened. Sadly...

It looks like David's fight with Goliath. Anyway the truth is important.

All is fine when someone has the same opinion like Michael Van Canneyt. The style of communication with Michael is visible in this thread, when he know he is not right he is just ignoring messages, but he is first to throw the rock. He is using power - not arguments. No one can do anything because he has full control on all infrastructure.

Admin, lead of project, programmer and foundation ruler in one person? Too much power always corrupts.

Am Fr., 21. Dez. 2018, 20:48 hat Maciej Izak via lazarus <

I personally consider Florian as lead of project. He started FPC after all.

Regards,
Sven

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When this issue cropped up on the mailing list, I went and reviewed the archive. You link to Michael finally "snapping", and even then he wasn't rude or out of place at all; I agree with Michael that the emails in the archives speak for themselves.

Michael seems extremely patient and completely professional - traits that I find productive in any environment. He's given you multiple chances to drop it, and even offered to welcome you back if you changed your communication methods. You're clearly extremely talented - which is absolutely useless without the soft skills to get your changes considered effectively. Perhaps brushing up on interpersonal communication would be beneficial.

In any event, I think if everyone just said, "Gee, I got heated, I am sorry, we can all learn from this", we could all move on and FPC would be better for it. A split in a community that is already small is detrimental for new users and is unprofessional from a business perspective - how would we expect a business to use tools from a community that can't even agree enough to produce canonical items, or work to resolve technical issues without serious fracture?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:48 AM Maciej Izak via lazarus <

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I am of the exact same opinion as Sven.

Michael.

On Friday, December 21, 2018, Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <

I’ve been successful in establishing crowdfunding for cocoa development.

Thanks,
Dmitry
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Good news :) Which platform did you use ? Do you still need contributions ?

Michael.

Il 21/12/2018 19:15, Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus ha scritto:

If we decide on using a crowdfunding platform, I would rather go for one of the sites mentioned here:

Given the amount of funds raised and the number of projects involved, I believe that a simple grid in an html page, showing the figures of how much has been raised, how much is spent in each project, and how much remains at the end, updated weekly or monthly or quarterly depending on what happens, would be enough.
It would cost an effort significantly smaller than what has costed discussing fund raising with a snake oil salesman, and be more effective than paying a fee for a crowdfunding platform.
It would stop the complaints about lack of transparency, and everybody would be happy.
The last is not true, of course, because whatever you do, there will always be someone complaining.
But complaints, and time lost to react to complaints could be significantly reduced.

Just my 2 cents

Giuliano

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 6:38 PM Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus <

It's 4 USD a month!
https://www.patreon.com/skalogryz
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Op 2018-12-21 om 21:59 schreef Travis Ayres via lazarus:

Most importantly, Michael's conduct was discussed and held up by Core. Several other members stated that Maciej was hard and draining to work with, and saw no other way then postponing his privileges for the moment.

sob., 22 gru 2018 o 13:02 Marco van de Voort via lazarus <

I was working on many things considered as controversial so I was discussing often, but in the final - compromise was always possible with gain for the project. The main problem was TOTAL LACK of any communication. I was never warned that something is wrong and how I can improve cooperation.

I don't know why I don't got any message : Maciej - stop, we don't want such features.

Then my focus could be different - finally there is many other bugs, features which could be my focus.

The most curious thing is that I was never warned about that I should close down/stop NewPascal project (which was mentioned as one of reason of postponing my privileges).

I don't see how using atomic/most draconian option on the start can help (without any communication).

The same happens with foundation now - lack of info.

Maciej Izak wrote

All is fine when someone has the same opinion like Michael Van Canneyt. The style of communication with Michael is visible in this thread, when he know he is not right he is just ignoring messages, but he is first to throw the rock. He is using power - not arguments. No one can do anything because he has full control on all infrastructure.

It is pretty simple: if the majority (or even a minority) thought, Michael would do a bad job, they could just fork FPC/Lazarus and prove they could do better. Obviously, the Lazarus/FPC mailing lists are not a place to discuss/advertise such a fork.

Admin, lead of project, programmer and foundation ruler in one person?

While it might be true or not if Michael takes all these "positions", he does an incredible job for >20 years for Lazarus and FPC.

sob., 22 gru 2018 o 15:46 Florian Klämpfl via lazarus <

I never said he is not doing incredible job. But in the case of conflict/problem he should not be a judge in his own case or without cool down period. I was just banned without any information what happened or without warning. Because of my stupid human emotions I started many stupid topics.

Such acting is harmful to the project (including my acting). I was working many months to fix management operators problem. This was discussed directly with you, Sven and Michael Van Canneyt. Michael started incomprehensible FUD about this work in public mailing list.

Without "code of conduct" such situation could happen again and again with other developers. I always follow the rules. But I can not read someone minds to know that I could be banned because I have other Open Source project...

Am 22.12.2018 um 16:28 schrieb Maciej Izak via lazarus:

As this is a pure FPC topic and has nothing to do with Lazarus anymore, I will not continue to discuss here. Feel free to raise it again in fpc-other.

Dmitry Boyarintsev wrote

It's 4 USD a month! https://www.patreon.com/skalogryz

Patreon is amazing and so simple to use (from a supporter point of view). I've supported many diverse projects on there already.

Regards,
Graeme

After Patreon latest ban's and collusion between Patreon and PayPal in the attack on SubscribeStar, I canceled yesterday my Patreon account.

So, I could not support any Free Pascal project there.

regards,

PS:

Complain against Patreon & PayPal with the FTC
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-2ySC7edHO0
My Call With Patreon’s Jacqueline Hart | Yes, It’s a Total Disaster (Transcript Included) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hv7hvZee-PQ

Op 27-12-18 om 13:20 schreef Graeme Geldenhuys via lazarus:

If one wants reoccurring contributions, better use Liberapay. It also supports teams. And it's code is fully open-source.

Regards,

Joost.

This looks interesting.
At least they don't seem to take an extra percentage off the donated amounts, you pay only the transaction costs.

Michael.

"you" who? the payer or the payee?

A good question. I suspect the payee gets the donated amount minus the transaction costs. So who is "paying" for it probably depends on your perspective :)

Michael.

Op 29-12-18 om 17:23 schreef Michael Van Canneyt via lazarus:

Just read their site. Both parties pay transaction costs.

When you want to donate, you can put some money in your account. (And will pay for the transaction-costs) You can put more money at once into your account to limit those costs.

Then, on the 'payday' (once a week), some of the money from your account is transferred to the account on the person you want to give a contribution to.

Then, when that person wants to withdraw the money, he/she has to pay transaction costs. (Again, when you do this less often, there are less transaction costs)

Regards,

Joost.

Joost van der Sluis wrote

Then, when that person wants to withdraw the money, he/she has to pay transaction costs. (Again, when you do this less often, there are less transaction costs)

Isn't that how PayPal works too? You pay a transaction cost when dealing with _real_ money (into PayPal or out of PayPal), but don't when you use money that is already in your 'digital wallet'.

Actually I'm not sure, I get so confused between all these online wallet things (PayPal, Google Wallet etc). Real banks should just get with the times and make international payments easier.

Regards,
Graeme