Hi,

In the "IDE Options -> Environment -> General" you can disable images on buttons (in ide dialogs) and menus.

Would it be possible to have another option to disable text in ide windows that have toolbars? Take a look at the attached screenshot. Many ide windows look like the red rectangle (that isn't zoomed in the screenshot, that's actual size). Yet look at how much less space is taken up by the toolbars in the green rectangles.

These massive toolbars are wasted screenspace, and if you resize windows like the Project Group window and make it narrower to fit the content of the treeview better, then I get 3 rows of buttons - waisting even more vertical space!

A image with a tooltip should suffice. The added text is just bloat.

Regards,
- Graeme -

It's just the other way round:
The images are bloat.
They contain no best would be to avoid all these toolbars and use on demand popup (text) lists where I can select from. Such a text list can be filtered, sorted and searched for but pictograms cannot.

That's called a menu ?

Michael.

J?rgen Hestermann wrote

The best would be to avoid all these toolbars and use on demand popup (text) lists where I can select from.

As Michael mentioned... in other words, a Menu. ;-)

I do actually agree that the images don't often mean much. My idea is to have both icons and text shown on such toolbars. Once you are familiar with there functionality (and if you use the IDE daily as your job - it should be soon), then disable the text. In the case that you forgot what a toolbar button (image only) means, the tooltip will come to your rescue in 0.5 seconds.

In normal terms I would say text makes more sense (hence I have images disabled in Lazarus's menu items), but for the toolbars I'm talking about, the text takes up too much space.

As for dropping the toolbars completely in such ide windows, and using a popup menu (eg: via a "hamburger" [?] icon) instead.... I would actually like that very much. A right-click menu might be problematic (hence my suggestion of a ? icon), because such popup menus are often context sensitive. eg: In the Project Group window, if you right-click on the treeview, you don't get the same options as the toolbar.

Regards,
- Graeme -

And my idea was to make these toolbars configurable just as EditorToolbar is. And of course remove the captions :)

Ondrej

A sort of.
But directly invokable via shortcut key and with filter and/or sorting. A (possibly long) list of text entries but you can type some characters and it immediately filters the list to the matching entries only (as in the component/view all-dialog). They could be sortable by last usage or lexically (or others) by the user. Windows start menu search finally uses this too (although this has other issues).

Or a tree like list where typing takes you to the next matching entry and enter invokes it.

When programming I would not like to move away my hands from the keyboard to reach for the mouse. That's not ergonomical.

J?rgen Hestermann wrote

When programming I would not like to move away my hands from the keyboard to reach for the mouse. That's not ergonomical. From what you described, it sounds like over-engineering for what the

actual problem is (reduce screen size and still have quick access to items). A [?] icon showing a standard popup menu should suffice. The hamburger menu could be triggered via some standard keyboard shortcut. eg: Ctrl+Space or something. The Spacebar matches the hamburger lines nicely. ;-) You can then select the menu item with arrow keys or a hotkey. No complexities of searching, filtering, magically reordering menu items etc. And all still possible with the keyboard (and mouse).

In fact, I have a 12 hour flight coming up where I need to kill some time. Maybe implementing some of these ideas as a prototype/suggestion is a nice way of making the time fly by. ;-)

Regards,
- Graeme -

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

In fact, I have a 12 hour flight coming up where I need to kill some time. Maybe implementing some of these ideas as a prototype/suggestion is a nice way of making the time fly by. ;-)

Wow, the configurable button text/icon feature was discussed already a long time ago.
There is also a Mantis issue :
http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=22278
Somebody only must implement it.

Juha

Juha Manninen wrote

Wow, the configurable button text/icon feature was discussed already a long time ago.

I know, I've even mentioned it before in the mailing list too. ;-)

There is also a Mantis issue : http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=22278 Somebody only must implement it.

Thanks, I just read the comments of that report. My suggestion it to apply the changes to all ide windows similar to Project Groups, Project Inspector, Package Editor etc. I'll apply it to one, and if the concept works, I don't mind applying it to the others.

Regarding Mantis:
Could we make it a Lazarus Mantis policy to NOT link to images/screenshots on an external websites. Not a single one of the 3 links in the comments work any more. :-/

Regards,
- Graeme -

I've wanted this feature for a while. I think adding simple global property on TToolBar to show/hide captions would suffice.

In the interim here is a workaround, editing the IDE while it's running:

http://cache.getlazarus.org/videos/small-toolbars.mp4

Graeme:

I often post video recordings of bugs and use an external site to do so. -------------- next part --------------
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Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

Regarding Mantis: Could we make it a Lazarus Mantis policy to NOT link to images/screenshots on an external websites. Not a single one of the 3 links in the comments work any more. :-/

I support this!
The images should be downloaded to the server so they won't go away when someone moves his site or makes other changes. I have seen so many such problems in other cases that I fully support usning the Mantis server itself as home to the images.

That is of course fine and dandy, wishing this.

2 Questions, though:

1. Does mantis support this kind of operation ?

2. Where are the supporting donations for a new/bigger mantis server disc ?

Currently, I basically pay 100 EUR/month out of my own pocket for hosting the main FPC server (which is also the mantis server) in a reliable data center.

Bigger discs (accomodating more images) means more money needs to be put on the table.

Michael.

Bo Berglund wrote

The images should be downloaded to the server so they won't go away

I don't mean "go crazy with the images". As Michael mentions - it costs disk space. A lot more that text-only bug reports. Sometimes a screenshot is needed to explain a problem, but if you can explain it without a screenshot, all the better.

Other space saving tips:
* Often a full desktop area, or whole window dump is not required. Select only the area of interest for the screenshot.
* PNG's are most used, but can be large because they are lossless. Use Indexed PNG's instead. They can have an optimised 256 colour palette. More than good enough for a bug report and normally a fraction of the original size. (The Gimp: "Image -> Mode -> Indexed").
* Don't include videos in Mantis, they are WAY to big. Upload them to a reliable source like YouTube or Vimeo and reference the URL instead.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Michael Van Canneyt wrote

2. Where are the supporting donations for a new/bigger mantis server disc ?

Clearly I should have mentioned "attachments with moderation", and only when really needed. See my reply to Bo.

Currently, I basically pay 100 EUR/month out of my own pocket for hosting the main FPC server (which is also the mantis server) in a reliable data center.

Wow, that is seriously expensive - does the Free Pascal project accept donations towards this? I'm assuming that includes an actual server (hardware) with full control to it? If not, I better up my hosting prices. I just charged a client ?50 hosting fee for a whole year. :-/

Regards,
- Graeme -

It all depends on what service(s) you require.

I know I can get much cheaper than that (kimsufi at OVH for example), but then I have less bandwidth, no backups, less diskspace, RAM, CPU etc.

As for donations: A foundation has been legally established, I should really do some pushing to make it active.

Where is my time machine ? :/

I didn't mean to complain, I just wanted to point out that sometimes simple wishes have unexpected consequences that need to be taken into account.

Michael.

Michael Van Canneyt wrote

It all depends on what service(s) you require.

If you don't mind me asking what [all] service are running off that specific hosted environment? eg: wiki, mailing list etc. Just trying to see if I could help in any way.

As for donations: A foundation has been legally established, I should really do some pushing to make it active. Where is my time machine ? :/

:)

Either way, I am more than willing to give monthly or annual donations. FPC has give me so much already.

I didn't mean to complain, I just wanted to point out that sometimes simple wishes have unexpected consequences that need to be taken into account.

I fully understand. I was maybe too open with my statement. I'm conservative with screenshot size and usage (just like HTML vs TXT emails) - but others aren't.

Regards,
- Graeme -

How do I donate for FreePascal/Lazarus?