Hi,

Its been a while I'm interest in making new style designs with Lazarus. For years I was making classic UI like all we done,Just a windows style and maximum a them like Delphi's AlphaSkin or things like that. But UI designing is changing,I see shots that I have no good idea to how make them live. Now I think with BGRABitmap and its control may it be possible but how?How that it have speed,design be possible and many other things that is important to make these controls and styles live. I know its possible with other languages specialty web programing but how in Lazarus?Is it even wisely to do this in Lazarus? Here is a sample shot[1],Tell me what you think?Is it possible,what ways do you think is better?

PS,Yes I know we can make controls like BGRABitmap's control and I made some test controls but I want to it be clear the best way for start or any other library that you think its good for.

Regards, Ara

Links:

1. https://dribbble.com/shots/1315388-Dashboard-Web-App-Product-UI-Design-Job-Summary/attachments/184703

lcl-customdrawn has this same goal, it works in all platforms and it allows choosing any of N skins, search the wiki and the source code.

You just need to provide a "drawer" for your style.

Felipe

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote

lcl-customdrawn has this same goal, it works in all platforms and it allows choosing any of N skins, search the wiki and the source code.

Unless things have changed drasticly in recent weeks I can't see how you can recommend LCL-CustomDrawn widgetset to anybody at this stage. It is far from production ready, not fully implemented and very buggy.

No fault of yours of course. The LCL-CustomDrawn is simply not complete enough for building actual applications.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Thanks.Sure I saw lcl-customdrawn from they two I meet Lazarus but its result that I saw is even far from of BGRABitmaps's controls.I say it from a design view not coding.

You think lcl-customdrawn is a better choice than BGRABitmaps?

Regards,
Ara

aradeonas wrote

I know its possible with other languages specialty web programing but how in Lazarus?

The LCL (GTK2, QT, Carbon, Win32) are not designed to be customise with themes. The design goal of LCL is to look native. So install a OS wide theme - that's it.

LCL-CustomDrawn is customisable as Felipe mentioned, but last time I checked (a few months back) it was still incomplete and not really read for actual application development.

For full customisation and theme support, use a GUI toolkit that was designed for that purpose. fpGUI Toolkit (see the URL below) or MSEgui is probably more what you are looking for. fpGUI Toolkit includes a 7 themes as standard, and has a demo on how to create your own custom themes. Many others have created there own custom fpGUI themes too. fpGUI is not API compatible with LCL, but the ideas are similar. MSEgui has a very different API design so a bit harder to learn.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Graeme I check fpGUI in past two years but if I want to be honest even its screenshot's doesn't impressed me enough because I think with my self I cant do such the example link that I sent with fpGUI,Is it possible to make something look like that?Was I terribly wrong? About MSEgui I didnt know it,I will check it.Thank you.

Regards,
Ara

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

For full customisation and theme support, use a GUI toolkit that was designed for that purpose. fpGUI Toolkit (see the URL below)

Please don't use our mailling list for propaganda of unrelated software, fpgui has its own communication channels, use them to talk about fpgui.

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:47 PM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho <

Didn't Greame do that for the past 10 years anyway? Competition should be welcomed :)

thanks,
Dmitry
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Felipe thank you very much but I dont think its a propaganda,Graeme wants to help as always.

Regards,
Ara

Dmitry Boyarintsev wrote

Didn't Greame do that for the past 10 years anyway? Competition should be welcomed :)

Yes, our mailling list has had almost no moderation since 10 years.

That's why I prefer the forum.

I also posted in forum[1].

Ara

Links:

1. http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,27827.0.html

On Mon, Mar 23, 2015 at 4:53 PM, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho <

The topic is (was?) ignored on the forum:
http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,27827.msg172439/topicseen.html#new

I personally would ban anyone who double-post on forum and the mail list :) (no offense, Ara!)
But I can understand why people are doing that.

thanks,
Dmitry
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Dmitry Boyarintsev wrote

The topic is (was?) ignored on the forum: http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,27827.msg172439/topicseen.html#new

2 answers within 1 hour is hardly ignored.

The forum is naturally slower than the mailling list, since I get mailling list e-mails directly to my inbox, but the forum I check only a few times per day.

Anyway, I'll unsubscribe so that the troll can have the mailling list for himself.

Non taken ;) I understand you but what can I do? In the past I was only using forum but I saw different people use mailing list and times I get help from here and not in forum.

Ara

aradeonas wrote

Graeme I check fpGUI in past two years but if I want to be honest even its screenshot's doesn't impressed me enough because I think with my self I cant do such the example link that I sent with fpGUI,

fpGUI is perfectly capable in doing something like what you posted. About 3 years ago I developed a very graphical application for a client using fpGUI - all components looked nothing like the default fpGUI (win2000) theme. Though I am no graphics designer - I got given photoshop mockups which I had to reproduce in a real application. fpGUI also includes AggPas as an optional (soon to be default) Canvas renderer. AggPas is a 2D vector based graphics engine 100% implemented in Object Pascal and does some very high quality rendering of graphics and fonts.

Here is a 10 minute sample I put together when I integrated AggPas with fpGUI. Nothing fancy, but it shows some features, and no scaled or segmented bitmap images were used - all done via fpGUI+AggPas's drawing API. http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/images/full/fpgui_agg-powered.png

Because AggPas is vector based, you can do some pretty funky things too, like warp a fully working widget in a spiral, write text along any curved line, apply filters to give widgets a certain effect say on mouse over etc.

I recommend you spend some time and evaluate your needs and build some mock screens using the various possible options: LCL-CustomDrawn, fpGUI with AggPas, BGRBitmap, MSEgui etc. Ask questions if you don't know how to use the various options. You should then get a better feel for what will work for you.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

Because AggPas is vector based, you can do some pretty funky things too, like warp a fully working widget in a spiral, write text along any curved line, apply filters to give widgets a certain effect say on mouse over etc.

Here are some demos created with AGG (C library) and AggPas (Object Pascal). This URL also contains compiled binaries you can download and run on your own system - as most demos can be interacted with. You can also build them from source if you want. The AggPas included with fpGUI is very well tested on 32-bit and 64-bit Windows, Linux, FreeBSD, OpenSolaris and RasperryPi. AmigaOS and OS/2 (eComStation) support are also in the works.

http://www.antigrain.com/demo/

Regards,
- Graeme -

Thank you very much Graeme,As always you are very helpful. I didn't know fpGUI includes AggPas,Its a surprise for me.I like AggPas and worked with it and test the demos many years ago but never make a UI with it.
I will check again fpGUI and if you have sample code or even screenshots of your works or any one know please share with me for understanding better because website's screenshots seems old.
By the way is it AggPas alive? I didn't hear from it for long time.

Regards,
Ara

aradeonas wrote

I will check again fpGUI and if you have sample code or even screenshots

Yeah the fpGUI website screenshots are a bit dated - I hope to update them for the upcoming v1.4 release. I'll see if I can email you through some more modern screenshots.

By the way is it AggPas alive? I didn't hear from it for long time.

The AGG (C++ library) is still being developed. The AggPas from http://aggpas.org is old and unmaintained. Lazarus also includes a copy of AggPas, but also doesn't see much attention - though it has some fixes over the aggpas.org version. I maintain my own copy inside fpGUI's repository which I believe is the most up to date AggPas around. I guess I have the most motivation to do so because it is soon going to be the default and reference implementation for TfpgCanvas. I also have some new features and fixes ported from the latest C++ version which should appear in the repo after the fpGUI v1.4 release.

So yes, it is still alive. :-)

Regards,
- Graeme -

So yes, it is still alive

Thanks to you ;)

OK,I will wait for your mail and please notify me when new version published.Now I'm compiling examples :)

Regards, Ara

Do you remember the times when you helped Delphi people in the Borland news-groups to find the Lazarus alternative? ;-)
Competition is a good thing, don't you think?

fpGUI and MSEgui both are opensource and have the same licence as Lazarus, all use Free Pascal and a broader spectrum of toolkits is a plus for the Free Pascal community.
Most Free Pascal users don't know alternatives because of the historical overwhelming visibility of Lazarus, a post with the words fpGUI, MSEide+MSEgui and the names of other Free Pascal non Lazarus projects in the Lazarus channels is no harm for the Free Pascal community IMO, as you did it for Lazarus in the Delphi channels when Lazarus wasn't so well-known.

Martin

XelPlayer has been made with MSEide+MSEgui:
http://almin-soft.ru/index.php?multimedia-programmy/xelplayer/xelplayer15-screenshots As Graeme writes, MSEgui has a radical other approach for style themes.

Please ask questions about MSEide+MSEgui on the mailing list: https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/mseide-msegui-talk Mail archive:
http://www.mail-archive.com/mseide-msegui-talk%40lists.sourceforge.net/maillist.html

Martin

QtLCL apps can be customized out of current system theme via stylesheets. You can provide --stylesheet yourstylesheet.blah to any qtlcl application and it'll work.

zeljko

I need to know more about this. Are any examples available?

I need to know more about this. Are any examples available?

And me.

Ara

http://doc.qt.io/qt-4.8//stylesheet-examples.html
http://doc.qt.io/qt-4.8/stylesheet.html

zeljko

zeljko these are like a theme for system default controls,How I can made new controls that their not like standards,like my first example link?

Regards,
Ara

aradeonas wrote

zeljko these are like a theme for system default controls,How I can made new controls that their not like standards,like my first example link?

Use BGRAControls. If you like hardcore sex then you can do whatever with eg. Qt. You can create widget or even QGraphicsItem, or just do as it is done in customdrawn widgetset. Provide only canvas and one handle (usually form).

zeljko

I think about that in first place but Im worry about speed and maybe it need making control from base U think.
I want to be sure before doing.

Regards,
Ara

aradeonas wrote

I think about that in first place but Im worry about speed and maybe it need making control from base U think. I want to be sure before doing.

Speed could be better than with ordinary handles, but also can be worse. There's no free lunch around, you have to try it. :)

z.

zeljko wrote

There's no free lunch around, you have to try it. :)

+1

That is why I also suggested Ara create some mockup screen using the various options available. Then decide for himself what would be the best fit in the long term.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Graeme I'm working with fpGUI and also I wants to remind you for ant new screen shots.

Regards,
Ara

aradeonas wrote

Graeme I'm working with fpGUI and also I wants to remind you for ant new screen shots.

Here are some basic ones. As I mentioned, fpGUI includes 7 themes as standard and any fpGUI application can use them or even switch them at runtime via the --style command line parameter.

The first 5 images uses standard Canvas drawing and fpGUI's Style class. I'll upload this as a new demo in fpGUI. I've also seen end-users create themes with mouse hover effects and animation too. Plus, these don't even touch the AggPas capabilities, which will make theming magnitudes better. Obviously you can also implement your own widgets or OnPaint handler, and then the sky is the limit.

The last image is from a product called SnapDraw, which is 100% implemented using AggPas (rebranded as CrossGL). The installer has really funky mouse hover animations on buttons etc. Something to experience. :-)

http://geldenhuys.co.uk/~graemeg/themes/

So recreating your sample screenshot as a desktop application wouldn't be a problem. It will just take some time to design and paint - just like you would have to do for the web app.

Regards,
- Graeme -

aradeonas wrote

Graeme I'm working with fpGUI

If you have any further fpGUI questions, don't hesitate to drop a message in the fpgui.support newsgroup.

Details connecting to the news server (or via the web interface) can be found here:
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/support.shtml

Regards,
- Graeme -

You can take a look at

https://github.com/fredvs/uidesigner_ext
https://github.com/fredvs/uidesigner_ext/blob/master/INSTALL.txt

with a lot of styles for fpgui for example

Another way to make new style apps is using web technologies for desktop.
For example using web browser to display app content but use FreePascal and Lazarus for backend and preparing system usage and ... . Example of this is :
http://electron.atom.io/

Imagine a desktop app that UI (graphic,animation and other stuff) written in HTML, CSS and JS and working with internet,file,system native menus and dialogs come from FreePascal.

Maybe we can prepare even JS with FreePascal like p2js, also there are new libraries like React that use component style building that is similar to over habits.

With this way we can prepare a website,desktop and maybe mobile app with one base. Write ones,Run Anywhere + new design.
Also consider count of libraries and components for web and JS that we can use in our apps.

What you think?

Regards,
Ara

We are working on this, but it takes time.

Michael.

aradeonas wrote

Imagine a desktop app that UI (graphic,animation and other stuff) written in HTML, CSS and JS and working with internet,file,system native menus and dialogs come from FreePascal.

I don't have to imagine it - I've already seen developers do that with Kylix 3. They developed a commercial framework do design application UI with the help of a web browser engine. The released a CHM-like help viewer as a free example. Some of the UI was built with the Gecko (browser) engine. It was low, memory hungry and huge to deploy (all the runtime libraries, browser engine etc). No thank you. DocView is 1MB, very low memory and very fast.

Github Inc (Atom project) and Microsoft (Visual Studio Code project) have also done similar in recent times - creating a programmer editor with the Chromium browser at the heard of the desktop application. Again, massive, not very fast, and complex build system (can only comment on open source projects of course). EditPad Pro is a fraction of the size, uses MUCH less memory and with a lot more feature.

Regards,
- Graeme -

EditPad Pro is a fraction of the size, uses MUCH less memory and with a lot more feature.

Yes but its not even beautiful and you should know specially as a Mac user we are not living in that time when people care about memory and size.For example chrome is a memory hunter and download all of it again in every update but small count of people care about it.

Also I didnt said make Lazarus with this system,as I you I didnt like these system for a professional user but most of the users don't click or type as fast as you and not even find out how much memory it use.

I think this way of making an app is good for apps that need beauty and animation far more that menus and speed and this is most of apps today.

I didnt even like JS but just a take look of massive libraries and components for it,times I tried to make web components for my app and sure I could but how much time it costs to make wheel again?

We are working on this, but it takes time.

If you are talking about converting Pascal to JS yes it takes a lot of times and I think maybe we can write JS ?exactly as web developers and later converter do that for us.so we have a web site that run on a FreePascal core as a offline/online web server that do system,db,file .. works . I think all of you know Brook from Silvio ,It can be a Server+Embeded Browser.

I like to know others thoughts and if any one like this idea maybe we could work on it together.

Regards, Ara

aradeonas wrote

Yes but its not even beautiful and you should know specially as a Mac user we are not living in that time when people care about memory and size.For example chrome is a memory hunter and download all of it again in every update but small count of people care about it.

I don't buy software so I can stare at their beauty, design all day - and not to work. I buy a product because it is functional and I can get my work done. Yes, I am well aware not everybody is that that. EditPad Pro might not win a beautify contest, but it is a hidden gem when it comes to editors. Extremely versatile, amazing features

As for Mac users not caring about memory, cpu usage etc. Umm, think again. Do a quick Google search for "chrome draining battery mac". There are tons of Mac users complaining for some time now about Chrome reducing the Macbook Air and Pro's battery by almost half!! Many have moved to Firefox or back to Safari because Google is not supplying a solution. I'm sure they would be happy with more desktop applications behaving like that - only for the sake of some eye-candy of course. ;-)

Also I didnt said make Lazarus with this system,

Neither did I. ;) I was simply giving examples of companies that use browser engines to build desktop applications. Coincidently two of them were editors and both using Chromium.

I think this way of making an app is good for apps that need beauty and animation far more that menus and speed and this is most of apps today.

Qt manages to do all that with no embedded browser engine as far as I know. I believe it is called QML. It is influenced by JavaScript and uses CSS to define many attributes (text and widgets).

Regards,
- Graeme -

Dear Graeme,you said all I know :D

I don't buy software so I can stare at their beauty

Most of the people are like this but you care more because you are a developer.

Consider count of chrome users.

http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

Also lovely browser like Opera is going chrome way.

I love our native apps simplicity,all I want is to use this HUGE web tools for desktop apps (not as a replacement for sure,but as a new way of building app) so I can make more beautiful apps with less coding.

Regards, Ara

aradeonas wrote

Consider count of chrome users. http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp

I always take such stats with a pinch of salt. Most new browsers are based on Chromium, so do the stats count that as Chrome? eg: Opera > v12, Vivaldi, Sleipnir just to name a few.

Interesting that the stats show Opera going up.

Also I believe the Chrome count is getting a *massive* boost from the billion plus Android phones out there.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Yes maybe.I guess both of us right but we look at this subject from different angle and if making beautiful new age app was easy with Lazarus or your library for sure I didn't looking for slow way.

I want to know others thoughts too.

Regards,
Ara

aradeonas wrote

and if making beautiful new age app was easy with Lazarus or your library for sure I didn't looking for slow way.

Beauty is very subjective.
I see the beauty in programs that respond and process data with high speed and have a clear minimalistic user interface without any distractions. I would not want a toy program that is meant for kids in the first place so that it looks more like a game than like a serious tool.

Beauty is very subjective.

Sure but ?lets try to see like a user not developer and take a look at most of websites or mobile apps that count of them and their users are more of us. I didn't want to make low quality app but I want to make more beautiful app.

Regards, Ara