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Mailing lists / lazarus / 2013-08

Lazarus scattered windows

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Jürgen Hestermann

I am working with Windows XP and
Lazarus is driving me nuts with its multiple window interface.

Very often, when I use Alt+TAB to switch back to Lazarus I only see the source editor but none of the other windows (object inspector, message window, Lazarus main window, etc.).
Then I am having a hard time to somehow get back to the object inspector or any of the other windows as I cannot even click on them. Astonishingly, this does not always happen.
Sometimes I think that it seems to be related to what other programs I have started. For example, I think that the PDF-XChange-Viewer is increasing the propability. But often it works okay even if it is started.

Is there any fix in sight about this?
Why is it happening at all?

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Marco van de Voort
to Jürgen Hestermann
J?rgen Hestermann wrote 7 lines
I am working with Windows XP and Lazarus is driving me nuts with its multiple window interface. Very often, when I use Alt+TAB to switch back to Lazarus I only see the source editor but none of the other windows (object inspector, message window, Lazarus main window, etc.). Then I am having a hard time to somehow get back to the object inspector

Learn to use keys, "F11".

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Martin
to Jürgen Hestermann: I am working with Windows XP and Lazarus is driving me nuts with its multiple window…
J?rgen Hestermann wrote 6 lines
I am working with Windows XP and Lazarus is driving me nuts with its multiple window interface. Very often, when I use Alt+TAB to switch back to Lazarus I only see the source editor but none of the other windows (object inspector, message window, Lazarus main window, etc.).

So how exactly do you not see the other windows? Or more to the point: Why?

- Was Lazarus minimized before, and only one Window (e.g. SourceEdit was restored)?
- Were the windows hidden behind other apps, and are still (so they were not brought to foreground?
- Or ?

About hidden windows: Take note, which window was active before you switched away from the IDE. Is there a pattern?
e.g for me, using the mouse, not tab:
- if I click the main-IDE bar, all windows come to foreground.
- if I clik on the text in a sourceedit, only that edit's window comes to front.

But with the tab key, for me, all windows come back

Then I am having a hard time to somehow get back to the object inspector or any of the other windows as I cannot even click on them.

Have you tried clicking the main IDE bar by mouse?

Is there any fix in sight about this? Why is it happening at all?

Depends on if it can be reproduced.

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Michael Van Canneyt
to Martin
Martin wrote 20 lines
On 31/08/2013 17:13, J?rgen Hestermann wrote: > I am working with Windows XP and > Lazarus is driving me nuts with its multiple window interface. > > Very often, when I use Alt+TAB to switch back to Lazarus I only see > the source editor but none of the other windows (object inspector, > message window, Lazarus main window, etc.). So how exactly do you not see the other windows? Or more to the point: Why? - Was Lazarus minimized before, and only one Window (e.g. SourceEdit was restored)? - Were the windows hidden behind other apps, and are still (so they were not brought to foreground? - Or ? About hidden windows: Take note, which window was active before you switched away from the IDE. Is there a pattern? e.g for me, using the mouse, not tab: - if I click the main-IDE bar, all windows come to foreground.

On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. This is by far the most annoying 'bug' in Lazarus on Linux.

Something one learns to live with :)

Michael.

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Xiangrong Fang
to Michael Van Canneyt

You may try anchordocking, although that also has some bugs, but are small ones, (e.g. window layout cannot be saved).

2013/9/2 Michael Van Canneyt

Show quoted text 42 lines
On Mon, 2 Sep 2013, Martin wrote: On 31/08/2013 17:13, J?rgen Hestermann wrote: > >> I am working with Windows XP and >> Lazarus is driving me nuts with its multiple window interface. >> >> Very often, when I use Alt+TAB to switch back to Lazarus I only see >> the source editor but none of the other windows (object inspector, >> message window, Lazarus main window, etc.). >> > > So how exactly do you not see the other windows? Or more to the point: > Why? > > - Was Lazarus minimized before, and only one Window (e.g. SourceEdit was > restored)? > - Were the windows hidden behind other apps, and are still (so they were > not brought to foreground? > - Or ? > > About hidden windows: Take note, which window was active before you > switched away from the IDE. Is there a pattern? > e.g for me, using the mouse, not tab: > - if I click the main-IDE bar, all windows come to foreground. > On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. This is by far the most annoying 'bug' in Lazarus on Linux. Something one learns to live with :) Michael. -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Graeme Geldenhuys
to Michael Van Canneyt: On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. This is by far the most…
Michael Van Canneyt wrote 5 lines
On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. This is by far the most annoying 'bug' in Lazarus on Linux. Something one learns to live with :)

I have the same issue here on Linux and FreeBSD (Gnome 2.x and JWM respectively). Annoying, but I too got used to it over the years.

The available window docking manager add-ons for Lazarus IDE are also not up to scratch - many issues. Lazarus IDE just seems too SDI designed for them to work well.

Regards,
G.

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Michael Van Canneyt
to Graeme Geldenhuys: I have the same issue here on Linux and FreeBSD (Gnome 2.x and JWM respectively).…
Graeme Geldenhuys wrote 14 lines
On 02/09/13 10:43, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > > On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. > This is by far the most annoying 'bug' in Lazarus on Linux. > > Something one learns to live with :) I have the same issue here on Linux and FreeBSD (Gnome 2.x and JWM respectively). Annoying, but I too got used to it over the years. The available window docking manager add-ons for Lazarus IDE are also not up to scratch - many issues. Lazarus IDE just seems too SDI designed for them to work well.

I think SDI is super. First thing I switched back to in newer Delphis... (Seemingly no longer an option in XE4, or I haven't found it)

But there is just this one annoying bug in Lazarus' interaction with the WM...

Michael.

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Juha Manninen
to Michael Van Canneyt: On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. This is by far the most…
Michael Van Canneyt wrote
On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. This is by far the most annoying 'bug' in Lazarus on Linux. Something one learns to live with :)

Virtual desktops help here.
I also have KDE + KWin WM. I have practically reserved one virtual desktop for Lazarus. When I activate it from taskbar, the whole desktop switches and there are no other apps blocking the view. I actually works very well.

Juha

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Kostas Michalopoulos
to Martin: So how exactly do you not see the other windows? Or more to the point: Why? - Was Lazarus…
Martin wrote 10 lines
Very often, when I use Alt+TAB to switch back to Lazarus I only see > the source editor but none of the other windows (object inspector, > message window, Lazarus main window, etc.). > So how exactly do you not see the other windows? Or more to the point: Why? - Was Lazarus minimized before, and only one Window (e.g. SourceEdit was restored)?

I have experienced the same problem under Windows. It is somewhat rare and seems to occur randomly, but IIRC when it happens Lazarus is minimized. Although i can't reproduce it right now, so take this with a grain of salt. -------------- next part --------------
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Xiangrong Fang
to Mattias Gaertner: ? Tools / Save window layout as default. Mattias

2013/9/2 Mattias Gaertner

Show quoted text 11 lines
> Xiangrong Fang hat am 2. September 2013 um 12:08 > geschrieben: > > You may try anchordocking, although that also has some bugs, but are small >ones, (e.g. window layout cannot be saved). Tools / Save window layout as default.

This does NOT work, that's why I say it's a bug.
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William Oliveira Ferreira
to Xiangrong Fang: You may try anchordocking, although that also has some bugs, but are small ones, (e.g.…

Can be saved *, but manually and, if you wanna save to a backup file, first, create a blank text file then overwrite it.

* At least, the last version i've used on linux (1.0.2)

2013/9/2 Xiangrong Fang

Show quoted text 57 lines
You may try anchordocking, although that also has some bugs, but are small ones, (e.g. window layout cannot be saved). 2013/9/2 Michael Van Canneyt > > > On Mon, 2 Sep 2013, Martin wrote: > > On 31/08/2013 17:13, J?rgen Hestermann wrote: >> >>> I am working with Windows XP and >>> Lazarus is driving me nuts with its multiple window interface. >>> >>> Very often, when I use Alt+TAB to switch back to Lazarus I only see >>> the source editor but none of the other windows (object inspector, >>> message window, Lazarus main window, etc.). >>> >> >> So how exactly do you not see the other windows? Or more to the point: >> Why? >> >> - Was Lazarus minimized before, and only one Window (e.g. SourceEdit was >> restored)? >> - Were the windows hidden behind other apps, and are still (so they were >> not brought to foreground? >> - Or ? >> >> About hidden windows: Take note, which window was active before you >> switched away from the IDE. Is there a pattern? >> e.g for me, using the mouse, not tab: >> - if I click the main-IDE bar, all windows come to foreground. >> > > On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. This is by > far the most annoying 'bug' in Lazarus on Linux. > > Something one learns to live with :) > > Michael. > -- > _______________________________________________ > Lazarus mailing list > > http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus > > -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus
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Dmitry Boyarintsev
to Xiangrong Fang: 2013/9/2 Mattias Gaertner This does NOT work, that's why I say it's a bug. --------------…

Try "Manual Docker" http://wiki.freepascal.org/index.php?title=Manual_Docker it does save, though there's not much save :)

Xiangrong Fang wrote 23 lines
2013/9/2 Mattias Gaertner > > > > Xiangrong Fang hat am 2. September 2013 um 12:08 > > geschrieben: > > > > You may try anchordocking, although that also has some bugs, but are > small > >ones, (e.g. window layout cannot be saved). > > Tools / Save window layout as default. > This does NOT work, that's why I say it's a bug. -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Mattias Gaertner
to Dmitry Boyarintsev
Show quoted text 24 lines
Dmitry Boyarintsev hat am 2. September 2013 um 16:41 geschrieben: ? Try "Manual Docker"<http://wiki.freepascal.org/index.php?title=Manual_Docker> ? it does save, though there's not much save :) ? On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Xiangrong Fang < <mailto:> > wrote: ? ? > >? ? 2013/9/2 Mattias Gaertner < <mailto:> > >? ? ? > > >? > > > >? ? ? > Xiangrong Fang < <mailto:> > hat > >am 2. September 2013 um 12:08 > >? ? ? > geschrieben: > >? ? ? > > >? ? ? >? You may try anchordocking, although that also has some bugs, but > >are small > >? ? ? >ones, (e.g. window layout cannot be saved). > >? ? ? Tools / Save window layout as default. > >? ? > >? ? ? >? ? This does NOT work, that's why I say it's a bug. [...]

It works here.
Have you created a bug report?

Mattias

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Xiangrong Fang
to William Oliveira Ferreira: Can be saved *, but manually and, if you wanna save to a backup file, first, create a…

2013/9/2 William Oliveira Ferreira

Show quoted text 6 lines
Can be saved *, but manually and, if you wanna save to a backup file, first, create a blank text file then overwrite it. * At least, the last version i've used on linux (1.0.2)

Some can be saved, but some cannot. For example, I try to open "Code Explorer", but next time I launch lazarus, it is not there. No matter if I save the layout manually or not.
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Xiangrong Fang
to Mattias Gaertner: It works here. Have you created a bug report? Mattias

Hi Mattias,

Bug report here: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=24942

It happens in the case if I want to share the space for Object Inspector and Code Explorer using "Tab" style... See attachment in that bug report.

Thanks.

2013/9/2 Mattias Gaertner

Show quoted text 41 lines
> Dmitry Boyarintsev hat am 2. September 2013 um > 16:41 geschrieben: > > Try "Manual Docker"< http://wiki.freepascal.org/index.php?title=Manual_Docker> > it does save, though there's not much save :) > > > On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 8:27 AM, Xiangrong Fang < ><mailto:> > wrote: > > > 2013/9/2 Mattias Gaertner < ><mailto:> > > > > > > > > > > > > > Xiangrong Fang < <mailto:> > hat > > >am 2. September 2013 um 12:08 > > > > geschrieben: > > > > > > > > You may try anchordocking, although that also has some bugs, but > > >are small > > > >ones, (e.g. window layout cannot be saved). > > > Tools / Save window layout as default. > > > > > > > This does NOT work, that's why I say it's a bug. >[...] It works here. Have you created a bug report? Mattias -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Jürgen Hestermann
to Marco van de Voort: Learn to use keys, "F11".
Marco van de Voort wrote
On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 06:13:44PM +0200, J?rgen Hestermann wrote: > Lazarus is driving me nuts with its multiple window interface. Learn to use keys, "F11".

A cynical answer which means: "Nobody is willing and able to fix it". That means that the user is forced to learn all shortcut keys for all windows:

Source Editor
Watch Window
IDE main window
object inspector
message window
form designer
local variables
stack window
etc.

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Jürgen Hestermann
to Martin: So how exactly do you not see the other windows? Or more to the point: Why? - Was Lazarus…
Martin wrote
So how exactly do you not see the other windows? Or more to the point: Why?

That's what I would like to know too.

- Was Lazarus minimized before, and only one Window (e.g. SourceEdit was restored)?

No. I am constantly switching between running programs with Alt+TAB.

- Were the windows hidden behind other apps, and are still (so they were not brought to foreground?

Yes. They still exist but are not visible in the Alt+TAB cycle because all these windows are just part of one application: Lazarus. I can switch to Lazarus but only get back one window (mostly the source editor).

About hidden windows: Take note, which window was active before you switched away from the IDE. Is there a pattern?

The pattern is that I *only* get back the source editor. None of the other windows are visible (not even the main IDE). They are covered by other applications. If I minimize these other apps one by one I get the other windows back at some point.

> Is there any fix in sight about this? > Why is it happening at all? Depends on if it can be reproduced.

Yes, that seems to be the problem. It does not always happen. But when it happens it is very annoying. It seems that very fast Alt+TAB directly after compiling makes it more likely to happen (just a guess).

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Arne Hanssen
to Juha Manninen: On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Michael Van Canneyt Virtual desktops help here. I also…

Den 02. sep. 2013 14:09, skrev Juha Manninen:

Show quoted text 12 lines
On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 12:43 PM, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. This is by far > the most annoying 'bug' in Lazarus on Linux. > > Something one learns to live with :) Virtual desktops help here. I also have KDE + KWin WM. I have practically reserved one virtual desktop for Lazarus. When I activate it from taskbar, the whole desktop switches and there are no other apps blocking the view. I actually works very well.

+1 (Xubuntu)

Vennlig hilsen / Best regards |\ ___,,--, _ Arne Hanssen, Senja, Norway /,`--'' \-,,__,'/ [ Linux counter #102028 @ ] |,4 ) )_ ) /~-----' [ http://linuxcounter.net ]------'---^~(_/-_)--(_/_)-------

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Hans-Peter Diettrich
to Michael Van Canneyt: Yes, unfortunately docking has disadvantages which I find hard to live with. Michael
Show quoted text 9 lines
On Mon, 2 Sep 2013, Xiangrong Fang wrote: > You may try anchordocking, although that also has some bugs, but are > small ones, (e.g. window layout cannot be saved). Yes, unfortunately docking has disadvantages which I find hard to live with.

The EasyDockMaster can save/restore the layout. In an IDE example I also implemented the minimize/restore IDE work on Linux, and the use of multiple layouts. Dunno whether the EasyDockManager still works nowadays, though.

DoDi

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Hans-Peter Diettrich
to Graeme Geldenhuys: I have the same issue here on Linux and FreeBSD (Gnome 2.x and JWM respectively).…
Show quoted text 13 lines
On 02/09/13 10:43, Michael Van Canneyt wrote: > On Linux, kubuntu, kwin WM, this is definitely not the case. > This is by far the most annoying 'bug' in Lazarus on Linux. > > Something one learns to live with :) I have the same issue here on Linux and FreeBSD (Gnome 2.x and JWM respectively). Annoying, but I too got used to it over the years. The available window docking manager add-ons for Lazarus IDE are also not up to scratch - many issues. Lazarus IDE just seems too SDI designed for them to work well.

The IDE tries to manage the windows too much, added layout managers cannot work very well :-(

Unfortunately the IDE code is a spaghetti cluster, so that I couldn't restructure it myself. I only could make the EasyDockMaster work for me, in an old IDE version, which I use since then. If somebody is interested in refactoring the IDE, I can give some hints but cannot point to concrete places in the spaghetti code, where something should be changed. The same for the DockManager, which is Delphi incompatible and buggy for no good reason. I also could make it work for me, but could not add a general window layout manager interface, covering Delphi docking, AnchorDocking and further user installable layout managers, because I couldn't remove AnchorDocking from the controls. Another spaghetti cluster, which looks like a maintenance nightmare to me :-(

DoDi

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Marco van de Voort
to Jürgen Hestermann: A cynical answer which means: "Nobody is willing and able to fix it". That means that the…
J?rgen Hestermann wrote 6 lines
Am 2013-09-02 11:12, schrieb Marco van de Voort: > On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 06:13:44PM +0200, J?rgen Hestermann wrote: >> Lazarus is driving me nuts with its multiple window interface. > Learn to use keys, "F11". A cynical answer which means: "Nobody is willing and able to fix it".

No, realist answer, because even if some other scheme is implemented it will be shaky and trunk-only for quite some time.

That means that the user is forced to learn all shortcut keys for all windows:

Going from one extreme to the other. Just the most used ones and the rare ones via the menu.

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