?Hi, Lazarus team
?
I have noticed in SVN repo
?-----?

41340: Translations: reverted Arabic translation to r37531 by request of Mazen Neifer (current Arabic translation maintainer). Reason is poor quality/machine translation, which makes hard to use translated IDE. ?-----

?I am not using Arabic in IDE and
?i am ?
not the translator
?,?
but
? ?
M?y ask?
?:?

Where i can find the discusses
?o?
f that request to remove that translating?

Best Regards
Zaher Dirkey
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Zaher Dirkey wrote

Where i can find the discusses of that request to remove that translating?

You cannot find it easily because it happened in Lazarus-dev mailing list which is not open for everybody.
It is best you contact Mazen Neifer directly. None of Lazarus developers know Arabic.
Maxim maintains translations but he must trust a native person's opinion about the validity.

Juha

I think it is not a polite to throw a patch or work for one who waste days ?for it without discusses with him.
At least in open messages list or forum, and waiting a daily to take his chance.

http://lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,16933.msg92795.html

http://lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,17742.msg99839.html

For me this first time i know "Mazen Neifer" as one of the Lazarus team

Best Regards
Zaher Dirkey
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I only followed the discussion on the surface, but I believe that there may have been some deadlines to meet or similar, adding an element of haste.

I guess then that you would probably be the one who originally contributed the work. I agree you should have been contacted (At least after the step was taken, if for some reason it could not wait.)

I can only believe this to be an oversight, but I am sure the people involved will help clear that up. (So please do not speculate based on anything I said). Lets wait a moment and give them a chance. -------------- next part --------------
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24.05.2013 20:21, Zaher Dirkey ?????:

According to Mazen the patch contained many parts that he reviewed and rejected earlier. Speak about politeness.

Also see Juha's answer. I wouldn't put it better.

25.05.2013 1:09, Maxim Ganetsky ?????:

And BTW, Mazen promised translation update soon.

Hi

I cannot see the point in throwing away all the translations made (94% of project messages, 7830 translated messages in 62 file) and bring it back to the situation it was long years ago (4%, 321 messages translated in 1 file) just because of one person view .

Regarding Arabic translation of technical terms and UI elements there are two different schools:

1- Traditional (which I believe Mazin represent), this school believes that all translation must follow the old Arabic language spirit and style and uses dead vocabularies known one thousand years ago.

2- Modern, which flows with the evolution and development of the language during last decade. And it is de facto now.

The followers of the traditional school will not agree on the concept of ?Modern Arabic? and afraid that The Arabic language will split in two parts. (Also there is a nationalism and religion issues). But this is the life and most of the languages experienced such evolution, the result of this school translation will be weird and sometimes funny (imagine a software UI in Shakespearean Language).

I am aware that there are a lot of poor quality Arabic translations out there in some open source projects (weak Arabic, blindly depends on TM/MT, lack of knowledge on the subject).

Apparently the quality of the translation I submitted is in a question, and I say it again, because of one person opinion whom had happened to be an Arabic translation maintainer.

I consider myself good in Arabic language, I am a freelance translator, I did a lot of translations in different subjects for government and companies (reports, articles and technical manuals), I am also a software developer for more than 25 years, and I have two translated books under my belt on software engineering and Object Pascal.

I did the Lazarus translation with passion; it took me several months, I even developed my own Po file editor to ease and speed up my work, it just feel bad seeing my contribution discarded without even bringing the subject up for discussion with other members before taking this decision. -------------- next part --------------
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Hi,
I'm sorry to hear this happened. Before Maxime became involved in Lazarus translations, I applied most translation updates. At that time, I could understand some translations, while for others I had to trust the submitter. One time I even got an update where the translator made some "joke" translations. Short after that I got another update from him, apologizing for the bad translation. His own community corrected him. If there is no feedback, we don't know about the correctness of a translation. In the current case, the Lazarus team has only one member, Mazen, understanding Arabic. He had some Valid comments about the "quality" of some parts of the translation. Which resulted in a rollback of the patch.

Now that I have read your part of the story of the 2 schools, I better understand the remarks Mazen made. I fear it is a matter of "taste" in this case what translation is used. Your efforts are not lost. They are still in SVN, only not "visible". I hope you can get in touch to "solve" the issue on what translation style should be used.

I Agree, it is sad to see that we "lost" 90% of a translation.

Marc

Then we should use two distinct codepages for both versions, like for Portuguese Portugal and Brazil.

When both versions only differ in the technical terms, one base version would be sufficient, eventually with placeholders (English terms?) for the polymorphic terms. Then a tool could create the other final version(s) on demand.

DoDi

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

Then we should use two distinct codepages for both versions,

?There is here 2 problems, first one translation quality ?you talk about it. Second, you can guess it, that related to managing the source and apply patches, now for me i must count to million before deciding to make patch and send it.

Best Regards
Zaher Dirkey
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Zaher Dirkey wrote

now for me i must count to million before deciding to make patch and send it.

You should negotiate with Khaled Shagrouni, and maybe others who do Arabic translation, before sending it.
Otherwise Maxim or whoever commits it, will be in a difficult situation and will get all the negative feedback.
If the 2 "dialects" or "schools" are really so different, it may be hard to agree with a common translation.
In that case DoDi's idea of 2 parallel translations is a valid option. Unfortunate situation of course, but such is life. Anyway, only you Arabic speaking people can decide what to do now.

Regards,
Juha

06.06.2013 1:00, Khaled Shagrouni ?????:

Believe me, I'm not happy with this situation too.

The best I can suggest is that you discuss it with Mazen and all other involved people and try to reach consensus. Preferably do it in Lazarus forums and post link to the thread here or notify me by mail directly.

As Marc already explained, your contribution is not lost and can be easily returned back if all parties will agree.

Hope we will be able to find satisfactory solution.