http://www.h-online.com/developer/news/item/RAD-Studio-XE4-focuses-on-cross-platform-apps-1848176.html

http://www.embarcadero.com/press-releases/embarcadero-technologies-unveils-multi-device-true-native-app-development-suite

Yes, it is released as planned on April 22.

With best regards,
Boian Mitov

------------------------------------------------------- Mitov Software
www.mitov.com
-------------------------------------------------------

Seemingly no support for Linux, Android.

-> http://www.embarcadero.com/products/rad-studio

-Michael

- different compilers for the supported targets - the new ARC is only available for ARM iOS. How can they sell this ... as a cross-platform solution ?
- do we have September again ? Now they are going to sell you beta software in a half year cycle (instead of yearly as they used to do in the past). Soon they will decide to switch to a quarterly cycle.

Adrian.

Why don't they give make it a 120 or 180 day evaluation with bug fixes included? It takes time to evaluate a product as well as develop a good product in it, something you may be doing in your spare time. If after using that long it turns out to be good enough the purchasing decision is simple. They seem to forget that the cost in time of evaluating a product is way higher than the cost of the product itself.

When the cost of evaluation is so high, as you say, then evaluation can start with buying the program to evaluate.

DoDi

How can they sell this ... as a cross-platform solution ?

For most people, having at least two different targets already counts cross-platform, even if the host is only one (yaoming). The prerequisites suck, REALLY REALLY SUCK (why do the hell they need .NET framework there?)

Reference:
http://docwiki.embarcadero.com/RADStudio/XE4/en/Installation_Notes_for_XE4

Because AFAIK they implemented various features in the IDE through the .NET framework. And yes, I don't like that idea either ;)

Regards,
Sven

leledumbo wrote

The prerequisites suck, REALLY REALLY SUCK (why do the hell they need .NET framework there?)

Because they had the brain fart to write the Delphi IDE in .NET, thus giving it the special features of being super slow, incredibly memory hungry and not portable to other platforms.

Regards,
- Graeme -

leledumbo wrote

The prerequisites suck, REALLY REALLY SUCK (why do the hell they need .NET framework there?)

I also forgot to mention the biggest laughing stock of them all... A full install with help just takes 45-60 minutes. WTF! Yeah, I heard them say that on todays XE4 Webinar. They now have an express install feature which takes 15 minutes, then you can start the IDE with basic functionality - it will then continue installing the remaining features in the background for another 30+ minutes. Oh boy!

Long live Free Pascal, Lazarus and MSEide!

Regards,
- Graeme -

Well, slow and memory hungry may be, but portability is achieved to every .NET enabled platform.

But it isn't true that the new IDE is written in .NET, it still is a Win32(!) application. Only some parts, like online help, required to add .NET, so that the help for the WinAPI can be presented from the Microsoft site. Perhaps also a .NET form designer was added, in the stupid attempt to create a .NET VCL. Almost a decade of development time wasted with fruitless and (now) annoying changes to Delphi :-(

Time will tell whether the new GUI will turn into a similar desaster...

IMO we (FPC/Lazarus) should be prepared for providing a new home for desparate Delphi coders, which will trash RadStudio for too little and too slow progress, and lack of compatibility, at a too high price. Failing to encourage this move will force most current Delphi coders to use better supported development environments, most likely C#.

IMO it also would look like much more profitable to me, to make Wirth's Oberon as popular as Delphi was. At a closer look it has a GUI well suited for handhelds, competing with Win8 or other OS for portables. And as its memory is fully garbage collected, it also would fit neatly into any .NET environment. Again I wonder how Niklaus was ahead of the mainstream (hardware) development with his ideas :-)

DoDi

Le 25/04/2013 08:25, Hans-Peter Diettrich a ?crit :

Usually I do not interfere in these philosophical debates and just this one won't hurt I believe. I'm a delphinian since TurboPascal DOS and Delphi 1 on Windws 3.11: this a long time ago. I used almost all versions and stopped to buy new releases with D2007. Then I discoreved FPC and Lazaus at my actual job position. And because we develop for Windows as well as Linux platforms I'm very happy in my job using these pair. I'm not involved in GUI applications and that's why I do not really care about visual components. A very important thing for me is the reliability and the fact that FPC+Lazarus are multi-platform. But, closer to my day to day work, the most important feature is obviously the stability and continuity of both projects. I don't know if you can understand how much I'm happy when I change to a new version and I can continue my current job after a few minutes instead of hours or even days and most important perhaps, continue using my habits which means to become productive within minutes. Of course l take afterwards some time to see and learn what's new. You can easily understand why I hate Windo$, but this only my opinion.

Maybe one thing could make happier than now: is it out there any plans to have Lazarus to manage project groups ? It is the only problem which bothers me.

Anyway, having furthermore a team of guys (no girls ? ;-) ) like you behind the scene lets me very comfortable to go on with my projects. Thanks to you all.

Antonio.

Sita Software
*Antonio Fortuny*
Senior Software engineer

220, avenue de la Libert?
L-4602 Niederkorn
Tel.: +352 58 00 93 - 93
www.sitasoftware.lu <http://www.sitasoftware.lu>
Your IT Partner

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Antonio Fortuny wrote

Maybe one thing could make happier than now: is it out there any plans to have Lazarus to manage project groups ? It is the only problem which bothers me.

I requested that already around two years ago:
http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=18518 :)

Regards,
Sven
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Sven Barth wrote

Because AFAIK they implemented various features in the IDE through the .NET framework. And yes, I don't like that idea either ;)

Regarding the recent (seemingly non existing) discussions on CIL (which mostly is miss-named ".NET", as the CIL virtual machine is part of the ".NET-Framework"), I understand that it is about do die in favor of the ever rising use of the java virtual engine.

So it is astonishing (or not astonishing ?!?!?) that Embarcadero still sticks to it.

-Michael

There is currently no one working on that.
I try to write all new code with multiple projects in mind.

Mattias

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

Well, slow and memory hungry may be, but portability is achieved to every .NET enabled platform.

WinForms is not 100% portable via Mono (last I checked). I wouldn't go that route either because Microsoft will be on your case when it suits them - and probably just when your product becomes successful.

But it isn't true that the new IDE is written in .NET,

I didn't mean the whole IDE. Just parts: help system, editor, form designer, language tool in editor (like what CodeTools is). But that sure makes it about 70% of what an IDE is.

Failing to encourage this move will force most current Delphi coders to use better supported development environments, most likely C#.

Java seems way more lucrative to me... The Java eco-system is massive, and that also opens the doors to Android (which is also Java and the biggest mobile platform). But that's just me thinking out loud.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

Because they had the brain fart to write the Delphi IDE in .NET, thus giving it the special features of being super slow, incredibly memory hungry and not portable to other platforms.

In fact .NET code is rather portable (using Mono)

Of course they can't convert to the Lazarus IDE (that is nicely portable and rather fast)

So maybe they should use Eclipse (that is free, very versatile and nicely slow).

-Michael

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

IMO we (FPC/Lazarus) should be prepared for providing a new home for desparate Delphi coders, ...

I think the current state in fact would offer a nice home for them, if there would not be the Unicode mess, that only will not take them aback when Delphi New Strings are fully supported (on all platforms) (and hopefully cleaned from some Delphi quirks and enhanced by some obvious features lacking in Delphi such as "RawWorsdStrings", RAWDwordString" and "CompletelyDynamic" String type variants ).

Failing to encourage this move will force most current Delphi coders to use better supported development environments, most likely C#.

I don't think that it's viable to think about converting to C#. While it (being created by the same person) in fact is a nice Variant of Delphi, I don't believe

And make them happy users of Eclipse ?!?!?!?! (I do use Eclipse for embedded projects in ANSI C: It's great, but needs a steep learning curve.)

-Michael

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

IMO we (FPC/Lazarus) should be prepared for providing a new home for desparate Delphi coders, ...

I think the current state in fact would offer a nice home for them, if there would not be the Unicode mess, that only will not take them aback when Delphi New Strings are fully supported (on all platforms) (and hopefully cleaned from some Delphi quirks and enhanced by some obvious features lacking in Delphi such as "RawWorsdStrings", RAWDwordString" and "CompletelyDynamic" String type variants ).

Failing to encourage this move will force most current Delphi coders to use better supported development environments, most likely C#.

I don't think that it's viable to think about converting to C#. While it (being created by the same person) in fact is a nice Variant of Delphi, I don't believe it makes more sense to Java than to C#, and make them happy users of Eclipse ?!?!?!?! (I do use Eclipse for embedded projects in ANSI C: It's great, but needs a steep learning curve.)

-Michael

Neither Mono nor DotGNU are implementations of whatever MS understands as .NET. The closed source .NET library prevents to use non-MS implementations for running .NET applications. CIL without .NET is less than FPC without Lazarus (or msegui...), a VM without a RTL :-(

In the Embarcadero groups I only read VS/C# as an alternative, nobody claims to move to Java.

DoDi

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

In the Embarcadero groups I only read VS/C# as an alternative, nobody claims to move to Java.

Then consider me the first. ;-)

Regards,
- Graeme -

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With Miguel de icaza choosing for Apple, Mono will die slowly anyway :)

It can't happen soon enough as far as I'm concerned, I've never forgiven OpenSuSE their use of mono. :)

Michael.

If it is that slow they should just offer ready made virtual machines that can be installed for testing, or create some Amazon images for it. The Amazon part may be easier as the licensing is taken care of, but with local virtual machines will that be an issue? Who wants to spend 2 hours installing a piece of software, go though complicated licensing steps just to discover its bugs?

This is why Linux rules.

If CIL would have been as successful as one might have assumed in the beginning (due to its technical benefits), due to politic (bad, closed up, by Microsoft and good, rather open by Google and friends (tricking out Sun by the 16 Bit move), Java definitely did win and here we are. Thus Mono is not of much interest any more.

-Michael

Is Mono alive yet?

2013/4/25 Michael Schnell

Alexsander Rosa wrote

Is Mono alive yet?

Looks like:

http://news.mono-project.com/

-Michael