Maintaining Symmetry is a basic principle of good design. It's broken here in 2 ways. Since the nbInsert icon is "+", the nbDelete icon MUST be "-". Also, using the trash can icon could be confusing - it resembles the Windows Recycle Bin so a user might think it deletes the whole file, not just the current record.

Secondly, the nbCancel icon is different from the bkCancel icon for TBitBtn.

Another quibble: the VisibleButtons in the Object Inspector are in alphabetical order, they should be in the same order as displayed to avoid confusion.

Now that with version 1.0 Lazarus is (mostly) stable I thought it was time the bring up less urgent matters like this.

A. G.

Ajeandro Gonzalo wrote

Since the nbInsert icon is "+", the nbDelete icon MUST be "-". Also, using the trash can icon could be confusing - it resembles the Windows

I normally do not associate "-" with "delete", that's why I replaced it with th trashcan icon.

Bart

Bart wrote

I normally do not associate "-" with "delete", that's why I replaced it with th trashcan icon.

Even my computer illiterate clients know "+" is adding something, and "-" is subtracting (deleting) something. This is a well established metaphor in computers.

I'm not saying the trashcan icon is wrong (I haven't even seen how it looks like), I'm just pointing out that a "-" is a well known symbol for a delete action.

Graeme.

Usually a red X is more common. Also searching for "database toolbar" in Google images shows a bunch of toolbars using a black "+" for adding and a red "X" for deleting.

Le 01/10/2012 21:30, Ajeandro Gonzalo a ?crit :

Since I use Pascal with Delphi I've always seen "+" and "-" in the TDBNavigator. This means that the users I'm working for are used to see those two images.
On the other hand when I use either a TButton or a TBitButton oe a TSpeedButton I'm used to insert a blank page for insert and a red cross for delete. They are still the same in Delphi XE.
This means that I do rather prefer Alejandro's position instead of the current pics in the TDBNavigator

Antonio.

Kostas Michalopoulos wrote

Usually a red X is more common.

True, that is also a very popular glyph used.

Graeme.

I'd say that in Delphi-tradition, the red X means Cancel, rather than Delete.

So it goes better with a "rollback", especially when you use the green V (check) as a "commit" or "OK".

kind regards,
Dimitri Smits

Which is exactly why I changed these delete and undo glyphs in the past. See: http://svn.freepascal.org/cgi-bin/viewvc.cgi?view=rev&root=lazarus&revision=32029.

Bart

Maybe we could make the glyphs customizable, and keep everybody happy?

Bart

Bart wrote

Maybe we could make the glyphs customizable, and keep everybody happy?

Very true. And frankly, I'm quite surprise that the TDBNavigator doesn't have an ImageList property to do just that. Those buttons are just TSpeedButton descendants anyway. It would also mean that the DBNavigator could blend in better with the icon theme used in the application.

Regards,
- Graeme -

At least Lazarus is "compatible" with this hack ;-) http://delphi.about.com/od/usedbvcl/l/aa090203a.htm

IIRC the official way to do it on Delphi was to override the resource, I'm not sure it's easy or possible with FPC...

Best regards,
Fl?vio

Fl?vio Etrusco wrote

At least Lazarus is "compatible" with this hack ;-) http://delphi.about.com/od/usedbvcl/l/aa090203a.htm

Such hacks should never be used or needed in Lazarus. Delphi is closed-sourced, and not released often, and very slow to listen to developers needs. LCL is open source, and should cater for the developer's needs. LCL should not simply be a feature-for-feature and worse, bug-for-bug clone of VCL - it should be an improvement over the VCL.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Yep, the icons for TDBNavigator are in a .lrs file.

For Delphi compatibility (where you cannot assign an imagelist to the control) we should probably derive a new TCustomizableDBNavigator from TDBCustomNavigator?

Who's up for the task?

Bart

Bart wrote

For Delphi compatibility (where you cannot assign an imagelist to the control) we should probably derive a new TCustomizableDBNavigator from TDBCustomNavigator?

How would that solve the problem. You still wouldn't have shared code between Delphi and Lazarus. Also having a completely new class, would mean a lot more IFDEF in your code - something I like to avoid at all costs.

[ See my next post about "delphi compatibility" ]

Regards,
- Graeme -

If I drop a TDBNavigator on a form and have code like

DBNavigator.VisibleButtons := [nbFirst,nbPrior,nbNext,nbLast];

My form (renamed to .dfm) and my unit would still compile on Delphi. (Mind you: there is no need to keep the LCL libraries compilable in Delphi, so no need for {ifdef}'s there)

Choosing a component in my program that does not exist in Delphi will makse my program incompatible with Delphi, but that would be a design decision then. Which IMO is an entirely diferent scenario.

FWIW: I don't mind if "we" allow this kind of extensions on VCL components. I have dropped Delphi permanently since 0.9.26 (I think).

Bart

File a feature request in the bugtracker?
Otherwise it will be forgotten.

Bart

Bart wrote

File a feature request in the bugtracker? Otherwise it will be forgotten.

http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=23097

Graeme.

I implemented it in r39065.
Please test and report any bugs.

Bart

Does anyone have a source fot suitable icons (also i need a gear one)? Maybe put them in a zip file and attach thwm to a message? Or upload to a free host like http://www.zippyshare.com?

Thanks.

A. G.

Could some of these?
http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/silk/previews/index_abc.png http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/silk/

2012/10/19 Ajeandro Gonzalo