I guess this is personal preference, but I find it annoying that Lazarus insists that a project must be open at all times.

Lazarus starts up with a new project and if you try to close it, you are immidately prompted to make another or open a project. Why can't I just have lazarus sit there and wait for me to tell it what to do? Why does it have to open a window forcing me to create or open a project?

I don't like this.

Anders

The idea of the modal dialog is that it sits there and waits for you to tell it what to do.

Why does it have to open a window forcing me to create or open a project?

There is little it can do without a project.
This confused some people, so the dialog was added.

I don't like this.

Mattias

If you just want to use SynEdit to edit text you can use LazEdit from lazarus-ccr/applications/lazedit

Oh, it's more than just annoying.? It causes applications using Advantage Database components to crash, especially if you forget to add adsdata to the uses clause (no, I don't know why ADS doesn't add that automatically).? Lazarus then doesn't allow you to enter the form again so you have to delete and start all over again - no fun!? PLEASE REMOVE THIS UNNEEDED AND UNWELCOME "FEATURE"

Op 17 maart 2012 22:14 heeft Ajeandro Gonzalo
het volgende geschreven:

Oh, it's more than just annoying.? It causes applications using Advantage Database components to crash, especially if you forget to add adsdata to the uses clause (no, I don't know why ADS doesn't add that automatically).? Lazarus then doesn't allow you to enter the form again so you have to delete and start all over again - no fun!? PLEASE REMOVE THIS UNNEEDED AND UNWELCOME "FEATURE"

Can you explain, how exactly this is related to having always an open project?

Can you explain, what you by Lazarus doesn't allow you to enter the form?

I don't understand.

Vincent

Mattias Gaertner wrote

The idea of the modal dialog is that it sits there and waits for you to tell it what to do.

I would rather it just sat there and did nothing. No dialog.

> Why does it have to open a window forcing me to create or open a project? There is little it can do without a project. This confused some people, so the dialog was added.

But isn't this what Delphi does? It should be familiar behaviour that you just have an empty ide and you have to go into the project menu to create a new project.

You can maybe say that in Delphi you have the html-view where you can see a list of recent projects and there is a link to start a new project or open an existing one and that this is comparable to that. It is just a normal modal form instead of a html view.

I can kind of see it that way, probably. It has a little bit to do with all the floating windows in lazarus. I think the one window style of delphi is nicer as well. That way this dialog could be just a panel that replaced the form editor or code pane when there was no project open. That would be my preference.

Anders

Ajeandro Gonzalo wrote

Oh, it's more than just annoying. It causes applications using Advantage Database components to crash, especially if you forget to add adsdata to the uses clause (no, I don't know why ADS doesn't add that automatically). Lazarus then doesn't allow you to enter the form again so you have to delete and start all over again - no fun! PLEASE REMOVE THIS UNNEEDED AND UNWELCOME "FEATURE"

Also this is no "feature", it's currently one of the core concepts of Lazarus and it was so for years. So I doubt that this will be changed in the near future (before 1.0 at least).

Regards,
Sven

Also this is no "feature", it's currently one of the core concepts of Lazarus and it was so for years. So I doubt that this will be changed in the near future (before 1.0 at least).

Although I have arranged with it now it annoyed me too. No other program (including Free Pascal text mode IDE) forces the user to have a file/project open all the time. It's a bit weird that it was designed like this. What was the reason for doing this? What advantage does it have?

Currently the IDE simply needs the project structure. E.g. If you open a file in the editor, info about it is added to your session (CaretXY, Topline, Tab, ...), which is part of the project.

This is simply how things have gone over time. I doubt someone will remember, why some decision was taken 5 or more years ago.

There is no rule that says it can not be changed. But to do so (and to do so in a way that is compatible: e.g. can read and use old config, session, projects...) is a major task.
So the reason it isn't changed now, is lack of time / other priorities.

Of course, there would be a quick fix: Instead of showing the modal dialog, disable ALL menus and ALL keyboard, except new/open project. (Must include installed packages, as they also may (may or may not) rely on an open project)
That is not really useful at all either.

I believe most users are annoyed by this at the beginning (me included ;) ). In my previous mail I also didn't defend the concept, but merely stated the facts (core concept and not going to be changed in the nearest future).

Regards,
Sven

I just can't see any problem, I like it the way it is.

Jether Fernandes Reis
-----Mensagem Original-----
De: "J?rgen Hestermann"
Para: "Lazarus mailing list"
Enviada em: domingo, 18 de mar?o de 2012 11:29
Assunto: Re: [Lazarus] Why does a project have to be open?

When you do a New Project, it is "virtual" until it is saved. It means the project structure is initially only in memory.
The GUI could as well hide the project interface and let the user open files and whatever. They would still be saved in a default project's session info but the user would not notice it until he saves the project or opens another one.

I think "New Project" should then be removed completely from the GUI. All actions would go to a default new project anyway if no saved project is selected.

The benefit of this approach would be that no memory structures need changes.

Still, this is not a big problem. It only bothers new users while they learn the IDE. It does not slow down the actual programming or any other activity you do in Lazarus. It surely should not delay 1.0. If someone wants to make a patch for the GUI changes I suggested, I promise to help with it. Then it could make its way to 1.0 release.

Juha
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As part of "having always an open project" there are routines to "save to virtual project" that I think are causing this and other instability problems.? It's like being in a zombie movie, undead values/properties of previous versions are somehow still around to interfere with the current version.? We need to be able to completely close a project, not just the "editor files" (whatever they are).

Since this "feature" is both annoying (not just to me but to others as their messages have shown) and unneeded, it should be completely deleted anyway (including "save to virtual project") before version 1.0 is released. I really believe this is behind most complaints about Lazarus being unstable and/or unusable.

Can you explain, what you by Lazarus doesn't allow you to enter the form?

Only the Unit shows.? Tapping F12 does nothing, and trying to open the form from the toolbar starts error messages I can't escape - I have to delete or move all the files and start over.

"Close project" closes a project completely.

Since this "feature" is both annoying (not just to me but to others as their messages have shown) and unneeded, it should be completely deleted anyway (including "save to virtual project") before version 1.0 is released. I really believe this is behind most complaints about Lazarus being unstable and/or unusable.

This is the first time I heard such a thing.
Do you have any prove?

> Can you explain, what you by Lazarus doesn't allow you to > enter the form? Only the Unit shows.? Tapping F12 does nothing, and trying to open the form from the toolbar starts error messages I can't escape - I have to delete or move all the files and start over.

Please create a bug report with detailed steps to reproduce.

Mattias

2012/3/19 Ajeandro Gonzalo

Only the Unit shows. Tapping F12 does nothing, and trying to open the form from the toolbar starts error messages I can't escape - I have to delete or move all the files and start over.

You must have something else broken in your installation. Your explanation makes no sense to me.
And, this really has nothing to do with projects. If you could open the form without a project, I guess your broken installation would still create the error.

Maybe you should try the latest development version. You would be positively surprised.

Juha
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Mattias Gaertner wrote

This is the first time I heard such a thing. Do you have any prove?

You've never heard anyone say Lazarus can be unstable or unusable? There has been such messages from others. And since others have also said always having to have a project open whether you want to or not is annoying, why not get rid of this unneeded "feature" even if you're certain it's benign? It really is Big Brother-ish, even if originally well intentioned.

Ajeandro Gonzalo wrote

You've never heard anyone say Lazarus can be unstable or unusable? ?There has been such messages from others.

Generic statements like "unstable" or "unusable" mean nothing, the cause could be anything, even a faulty HD. Basing any decision on that would be a rumor-based software development =D not a very good idea.

?And since others have also said always having to have a project open whether you want to or not is annoying, why not get rid of this unneeded "feature" even if you're certain it's benign?

The only feature which could be removed here is the entire "Close project" menu item. I don't see any other feature which could be removed. The dialog cannot be removed alone without removing the menu item because it is what the menu item does. So what you really want is a new feature: project-less IDE. This is a volunteer based project, if noone is interrested in implementing the feature that you want, or won't implement as fast as you want, you can always send a patch.

2012/3/20 Ajeandro Gonzalo

Ajeandro, why you are still mixing 2 different things and refuse to understand what people answer to you?

1. Unstable Lazarus is one thing.
2. Having a project open always is another thing.

Number 2 does not cause number 1.

Besides, Lazarus is really stable nowadays. Crash bugs are practically gone. You should try a new version and see it yourself.

Juha
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