Is there an online tool for browsing library documentation and source code for FPC and Lazarus?

I am looking for something along these lines -
http://stdlib.rubyonrails.org/,
http://htmlunit.sourceforge.net/apidocs/index.html.

Doesn't the FPC community have something similar?

What about

http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/rtl/index.html http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/fcl/index.html

?

Michael.

I already know about these and use them, but it is very easy to lose your point of origin when you are navigating among the pages. Actually it is their shortcomings whch prompted me to ask this question.

I am referring more to the page design and layout itself, the way they use frames so you don't lose you bearings as you move back and forth.

PS. Can the above 2 sites be subdomained into rtl.freepascal.org, fcl.freepascal.org? It makes searching using Google site search much easier. If they are plain html files I don't mind having the raw html so I can place them in my own website where I can site search them.

For classes, I agree.
But the Java layout is somewhat awkward for global identifiers...

I am referring more to the page design and layout itself, the way they use frames so you don't lose you bearings as you move back and forth.

I understand what you mean. The floating popup window isn't always a help... Maybe we should think about generating some kind of frame-based layout as well.

PS. Can the above 2 sites be subdomained into rtl.freepascal.org, fcl.freepascal.org? It makes searching using Google site search much easier. If they are plain html files I don't mind having the raw html so I can place them in my own website where I can site search them.

They are plain HTML, so you can download the archive files from the website: http://www.freepascal.org/down/docs/docs.var

Michael.

Is there an online tool for browsing library documentation and source code for FPC and Lazarus?

Have you ever seen the FPDoc Editor window in the IDE?

I already know about these and use them, but it is very easy to lose your point of origin when you are navigating among the pages. Actually it is their shortcomings whch prompted me to ask this question.

You can get the source, and create your documentation locally, in various formats (not only HTML).

I am referring more to the page design and layout itself, the way they use frames so you don't lose you bearings as you move back and forth.

With HTML it's up to your browser to remember the visited pages, or to open links in new tabs.

DoDi

I'm new to Lazarus from Delphi, and am still trying to learn how to use the Lazarus docs effectively. I too would like a guide to using them well. (Although they're fragmented over multiple documents, I STILL find the Lazarus material easier to use than the current versions of the Delphi docs.)

That said though: how about joining a community documentation group that could do a good outline and then distribute writing assignments to the group members? I'd join such an effort if I knew how (and if my newbie understanding would allow me to contribute something.)

I realize that such a group might already exist. But how to join it/contribute? Need a knowledgeable leader(s) that can do the basic organization task
(a pretty big job!)

Regards,
Curt Carpenter

:-)

That said though: how about joining a community documentation group that could do a good outline and then distribute writing assignments to the group members? I'd join such an effort if I knew how (and if my newbie understanding would allow me to contribute something.)

You mean documentation *other* than source code documentation?

There is the wiki, where everybody can write articles...

I realize that such a group might already exist. But how to join it/contribute? Need a knowledgeable leader(s) that can do the basic organization task (a pretty big job!)

Right, organizing all material is a very big job :-(

I'm not happy at all with the wiki, I cannot find anything there, unless somebody gives me a direct link. Do you have an idea how this could be improved?

DoDi

I think you need someone with expertise and experience in documentation to look at the problem -- and that's certainly not me. I might be able to handle a writing assignment if someone gave it to me as part of a larger docs project though,
in the context of a good outline and if it involved a specific topic that I could study from here.

I find the wiki useful and friendly, and have pretty good confidence that if I have a question, I'll find the answer there somewhere. It's just hard to know where. (I've taken to keeping careful notes about where to find stuff -- in the wikis, on the forum pages etc.) So far, I've not committed to buying a copy of the _Lazarus, a Complete Guide_ (although I'm sure I'd find it useful).

The forums are a very valuable resource too. The knowledge and expertise is there (and here) -- it's just not organized for easy study and use.

Because the job of organizing the material is so big, I wonder if it would work to start a subscription program that would let the community pay somebody to manage and organize the effort of a volunteer team? I'd contribute a little money (retired, so not much of that sadly) -- but could contribute quite a bit of time to such an effort.

As for content: I'd guess that most Lazarus users are pretty comfortable with going into the source to look for answers to a question. The problem is knowing which particular PART of the source to go to -- and where that part is on my hard drive.
That knowledge will come from experience -- but it would sure be easier under the guidance of an expert and a written guide. (I still haven't figured out how to know when to go to the Free Pascal docs vs. the Lazarus docs -- but that might just be my problem :).

Maybe you could take the lead on something like this?

2011/11/12 Frank Church <vfclists at ....>:

I already know about these and use them, but it is very easy to lose your point of origin when you are navigating among the pages. Actually it is their shortcomings whch prompted me to ask this question.

Maybe have a look at fpGUI's DocView (INF documentation viewer). It's not online, but rather offline help. Multiple INF documents can be opened together and treated as a library of documentation. Searching over all INF files is near instant. It has a History tab to show where you are and have been. The TOC tree keeps track of where you are. There is also a bookmarks feature so you can bookmark areas of interest. There is also an annotations (add user comments) feature, so you can quickly jump to a section of interest and user comments. Integration of Docview into Lazarus IDE (or MSEide) is very simple without requiring a recompile of the IDE - thus giving you context sensitive help by simply placing the cursor somewhere in your code, and pressing F1.

Older binary versions are available for download from:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/fpgui/files/

Otherwise (recommended), compile the latest DocView from fpGUI's source code. If you want I can also email you a docview binary and pre-built INF help files in private.

Here is some screenshots of DocView from about a year ago:

http://opensoft.homeip.net:8080/~graemeg/docs_screenshot1.png http://opensoft.homeip.net:8080/~graemeg/docs_screenshot2.png http://opensoft.homeip.net:8080/~graemeg/docs_screenshot3.png

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

Have you ever seen the FPDoc Editor window in the IDE?

It's an "editor", not a help viewer! The help text is unformatted, badly wrapped and in raw form (visible help format tags).

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

I'm not happy at all with the wiki, I cannot find anything there, unless somebody gives me a direct link.

+1000
I don't even bother with the wiki any more. It's a mixed mess of random words.

Do you have an idea how this could be improved?

Yes, use a true documentation format. IPF (text source which compiles into highly compressed binary INF help files). I am probably bias, but IPF is an excellent format, and was designed for the job. Then using a cross-platform documentation viewer like DocView makes all your help searchable (even multiple INF files together), shows a TOC, will auto-generate an Index, bookmarks, annotation etc...

To show how well INF files work, I have a copy of the Sybil Library (Sybil was a Delphi clone like Lazarus - but created by a company for the OS/2 platform). I can supply a copy to anybody that is interested. The library is a collection of INF documents (considering them like digital books) explaining the Object Pascal language for newbies, a book on OOP introduction, the Sybil RTL and SCL (the equivalent of VCL or LCL), the OS/2 API help, and the Sybil IDE help, and documentation on various Sybil tools. It's quite brilliant, very extensive and looks good. All points I consider very important for useful documentation.

Curt Carpenter wrote

I find the wiki useful and friendly, and have pretty good confidence that if I have a question, I'll find the answer there somewhere. ?It's just hard to know where. ?(I've taken to keeping careful notes about where to find stuff -- in the wikis, on the forum pages etc.)

And that's the exactly proof to tell anybody that the wiki is a bad idea and simply doesn't work for documentation. What's the point in having brilliant documentation if nobody can find anything. Searchable offline docs are a must! And I don't just mean search for a matching word, but look at similar words with a matched rating system, include words to exclude from search results, using regex in the search term needed etc. Docview supports such type of searching already. If the Lazarus folk aren't comfortable with using a non-LCL based help viewer, then simply port DocView to LCL. The INF reading code, search engine etc are abstracted from the UI code, so porting should be easy.

I'm not happy at all with the wiki, I cannot find anything there, unless somebody gives me a direct link. Do you have an idea how this could be improved?

I am also lost in the thicket of different documentation locations about Free Pascal. In the end I am now using Google to search for "free pascal xxxx" when I want information about xxxx. This is not perfect but the easiest and most reliable way I found.

Is there another site where the Lazarus docs can also be downloaded in this form?

Frank Church wrote

Is there an online tool for browsing library documentation and source code for FPC and Lazarus?

AFAIK, the most advanced is DocView.

-Michael

Curt Carpenter wrote

I'm new to Lazarus from Delphi,

So the most effective Library documentation help is the Delphi (offline) help.

-Michael

Sorry, Docview of course is an offline help viewer. But as (if built6 correctly) the viewable info is the same as in the appropriate online resources, there is not a huge difference.

-Michael

I copied the files to my website and created subdomains to allow Site searching on the different documents.

Free Pascal Users guide | http://fpdocs.rca2.net/user/user.html | compiler.fpdocs.rca2.net
Free Pascal Programmers Guide | http://fpdocs.rca2.net/prog/prog.html | programmer.fpdocs.rca2.net
Free Pascal Reference Guide | http://fpdocs.rca2.net/ref/ref.html | langref.fpdocs.rca2.net
Free Pascal Runtime Library | http://fpdocs.rca2.net/rtl/index.html | rtl.fpdocs.rca2.net
Free Pascal Free Component Library | http://fpdocs.rca2.net/rtl/index.html| fcl.fpdocs.rca2.net
Free Pascal Documentation Tool Reference |
http://fpdocs.rca2.net/fpdoc/fpdoc.html | docgen.fpdocs.rca2.net

I am now waiting for Google to come along and index them.

What remains for me is the LCL the Lazarus CCR, but either rather obtain from gzipped archives than wget/httrack them into my site.

Further thoughts
=============
When I look at the help generated for the Runtime and Component Libraries I see the line numbers for the procedure definitions, but given how low the numbers are it looks like they refer to the procedure declarations rather than the source code itself.
There are some tools in Lazarus which construct tables of procedure declarations and their implementations like in the Code Explorer. In fact I'd like a listing of those functions and which libraries contain them. Can't the same code be used to create links in the html which will load the procedure implementations into the browser frames?

To me it seems all the necessary tools are present, and they only need HTML generation templates/layouts to link them up to create the docs in the manner required

Using site:lazarus-ccr.sourceforge.net works for me most of the time.

2011/11/14 Frank Church :

What remains for me is the LCL the Lazarus CCR, but either rather obtain from gzipped archives than wget/httrack them into my site.

Why not take the docs from the Lazarus release?
http://sourceforge.net/projects/lazarus/files/Lazarus%20Documentation/Lazarus%200.9.30/

Or do you reject them because they contain the fpc docs too.

Vincent

I had no idea of their existence.

Thanks

I might be off here, but searching inside the docs is as simple as going to Google and then writing:

site:http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/rtl/ writeln

On 14 November 2011 13:28, Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho <

It is much easier when you don't have to type the whole domain name. Try it with googlebar extension in Firefox. I configure some of my profiles to do a site search than a Google search when I press the enter key in the search box.

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote

I might be off here, but searching inside the docs is as simple as going to Google and then writing: site:http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/rtl/ writeln

To the maintainer of the web pages:

It would be nice to add a "Google Search" button on the docs-html pages (maybe using a frame.) I did it here: http://www.bschnell.de

(BTW I did a "Google Translate" button here :
http://www.dressurstall-wittig.de/. Something like this might be helpful now and then, too.)

-Michael

Web design isn't one of the FPC/Lazarus community's strengths [?]

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

I'm not happy at all with the wiki, I cannot find anything there, unless somebody gives me a direct link. Do you have an idea how this could be improved?

Did you try Google? For me it works very well, for example:

lazarus wiki high dpi
lazarus wiki epiktimer
lazarus wiki spreadsheet
lazarus wiki graphics

All those bring excelent results.

I still remember in the last Lazarus day when someone said that there is no list of 3rd party components for Lazarus, and then I just tryed in Google: lazarus components

And there it was, the 1st link is the wiki page with a list of lazarus components =D

Can you tell me how to configure Google to search the English pages, instead of the German ones?

In former times there was an "advanced search" option in the result page, but it seems to have gone :-(

DoDi

Hans-Peter Diettrich a ?crit :

On the google page, there is a menu behind an icon in the right of your screen where you can find "advanced search".

Thanks, the problem are cookies. I disabled cookies, and that broke the use of options :-(

DoDi

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

Thanks, the problem are cookies. I disabled cookies, and that broke the use of options :-(

Your question seems not to have been answered.

As the implementation of a Google search button I did on the said web page does not work any more (supposedly as Goggle changed their software) I, too, would like how to do this (implement a button that does a Google search of a text given in an edit field on a page, using a definable language.

Maybe somebody (myself) could add this to the Lazarus help page (but I suppose this would ask for using a frame outside of the appropriate pages).

-Michael

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote

I might be off here, but searching inside the docs is as simple as going to Google and then writing: site:http://www.freepascal.org/docs-html/rtl/ writeln

I still think pressing "F1" on writeln is easier :-)

Searching the XML directories in the IDE is more reliable, because it also finds entries which are not part of the HTML docs, e.g. on private fields or methods.

DoDi

+1
and I have been using it like that for quite some time already. I guess some people just like to do things the hard way. :-)

Yeah, but you will miss the FPC Language Reference information. INF docs get generated in less than a minute (so can be done often with a single script), after that I have the full Lang Ref, RTL, FCL, LCL and fpGUI docs available by simply pressing F1 for context sensitive help. And you also don't have the advanced searching facility of DocView (search for phrase, search for exact keyword, search for similar keyword, search for word but exclude some other word, regex searching etc). I use help annotations a lot as well - somebody mentions something in the mailing list that wasn't as clear in the docs, I simply add annotations to my docs.

Like I said before. Excellent documentation is useless if you can't search and find anything inside them.

I don't use the html docs btw, I use the CHM ones.

But in such rare cases I usually grep the source directly. XML was not meant to be human readable.

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

OINF docs get generated in less than a minute (so can be done often with a single script), after that I have the full Lang Ref, RTL, FCL, LCL and fpGUI docs

As you know, some time ago I with multiple tries failed trying to do
exactly this on the svn version of the source files.

It would be great if you could provide this script system in the svn (with an easy to use description on how to point it to the multiple source directories to be used), so that everybody should be able to create the most current inf files for everything.

Thanks again,
-Michael

I'll see what I can do. After you had problems last time generating LCL documentation in INF format, I did submit a patch to fix fpdoc's IPF writer. I haven't had any problems since then, but I'll get another FPC and LCL update today and regenerate the docs to see how it goes.

GREAT !

(Please bear with me when not doing all tests in a short time frame, as right now, the Lazarus related stuff is a low priority project, here

-Michael