The translation for "Project / Project Options / Linking" is not "Projeto / Op??es de Projeto / Vinculando", but "Projeto / Op??es de Projeto / Vinculador".

Ant?nio

Similarly, "Project / Project Options / Parser" must be translated as "Projeto / Op??es de Projeto / Analisador de Sintaxe" and not "Analisando Sintaxe".

Ant?nio

2011/10/21 Ant?nio :

It should probably be "Linker" in english

It is Linking.

Ant?nio

2011/10/21 Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho :

2011/10/21 Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho :

It should probably be "Linker" in english

These are options related to linking. Of source these options are used by the linker.

So, IMHO, both linking and linker are good terms in English.

Vincent

Yes, but something must be learned from the commercial standard for Portuguese.

Ant?nio

2011/10/21 Vincent Snijders :

Something similar could be said of "Version Info", "Code Generation", "Build Macros", which should be "Informa??o de vers?o", "Gera??o de c?digo". And also you have to choose between writing all with capitals or not.

"Build Macros" could be translated simply as "Macros".

Ant?nio

2011/10/21 Ant?nio :

Hi,

I use the IDE in English for two reasons: is easier to report problems and ask questions in official list or bugtracker; to practice my English :D.

But I agree with Antonio that the current translation is sounding strangely to pt_BR.

Vincent Snijders wrote

These are options related to linking. Of source these options are used by the linker. So, IMHO, both linking and linker are good terms in English.

Yes, you are correct. I was thinking of "linking" as a verb in gerund, which would be strange. But linking can be a noun too, in which case it is correct.

In English I think it is OK.

Ant?nio

2011/10/21 Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho :

Another translation for "Linking" could be "V?nculo", but sounds a bit confusing.

Ant?nio

2011/10/21 Ant?nio :

The alternative is "Vinculador", which would result in "Linker" in English.

Ant?nio

2011/10/21 Ant?nio :

Hello,

This is weird. After a long work with this translation, it is the first time that i heard someone complaining about it. So far, i never got a single suggestion.
I understand that "linking" refers to the act of the "linker". It is what a "linker" does. So, to me " linking" in this case refers to the options passed to the "linker".

I just want to mention that "context" in portuguese language may imply in something totally different. So, in some case, i opted to change the word to clarify its meaning in portuguese.

Suggestions are welcomed, but with consensus of course.

Regards,

Marcelo B. Paula

-----Mensagem Original-----

This is weird. After a long work with this translation, it is the first time that i heard someone complaining about it. So far, i never got a single suggestion.

I have made an extensive translation of the IDE a few years ago, you may know about that. Perhaps you don't know who has made it.

Ant?nio

I'm updating the file lazaruside.pt_BR according to the following pattern:

1) Capitalized menu items.
2) Non-capitalized dialog-box text.

Ant?nio

3) Capitalized titles.

Ant?nio

Last part of my revision posted today on BugTracker.

Ant?nio

28.10.2011 23:03, Ant?nio ?????:

Last part of my revision posted today on BugTracker.

Ant?nio, you are wasting your time. Both your updates were rejected. See my comments in bugtracker.

For the curious people, this is the algorithm to make sure that a translation update won't be applied:

1. Lose many currently translated strings with your update.
2. Refuse to discuss your changes with current maintainer of translation in question. Note, that he will be asked anyway, but by me.

Example:

http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=20538
http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=20584

Well, I am discussing right here. Marcelo is monitoring (I hope) this and can enjoy my work, if he wants.

Ant?nio

2011/10/28 Maxim Ganetsky :

I did my part.

Ant?nio

29.10.2011 1:27, Ant?nio ?????:

Well, I am discussing right here. Marcelo is monitoring (I hope) this and can enjoy my work, if he wants.

IMO this is rather strange method of discussion.

Sorry, I said "if he wants", I should say "if he wants so". My fault. Good afternoon.

Ant?nio

2011/10/28 Maxim Ganetsky :

The file is available on BugTracker.

Ant?nio

2011/10/28 Ant?nio :

Ant?nio wrote

The translation for "Project / Project Options / Linking" is not "Projeto / Op??es de Projeto / Vinculando", but "Projeto / Op??es de Projeto / Vinculador".

Actually in the University of S?o Paulo the term used is "Ligador", not "Vinculador"

I don't know which one is more popular in a general way, but that might be something to investigate.

It sounds me a bit a Portugal style.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho :

Visual Studio, for example, uses "Vinculador",
http://msdn.microsoft.com/pt-br/library/y0zzbyt4%28v=vs.80%29.aspx

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Ant?nio :

IDE is the frontispiece of Lazarus. It needs special attention. A bad language on the IDE can cause dislike, as it does because of an eventual Portugal style.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 marcelo.bp :

I agreed to change the word to its noon form. Please update to trunk version to get the latest files.

These terms are both used in computer programming, and means the same thing. The people that i know and work with, uses "vinculador". I always used this word form.

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vincula%C3%A7%C3%A3o_(computa%C3%A7%C3%A3o)

About the last files submition to bugtracker, i just want to mention that people are
focusing only in the IDE translation itself. But the translations are big as Lazarus are.
So, the same standards were applied to the other IDE parts, as LCL, Components,
Examples, Tools.

If one wants to contribute, he or she must discuss first with the community. There is a
lot to take in account than just submit files as a random desire. Not to mention that there is a version control, and that we work with the development version (trunk).

Regards,

Marcelo.

-----Mensagem Original-----

On some sentences often occurs the lack of some words ("C?digo Constru??o" instead of "C?digo de Constru??o"), which appears to be sloppy.

Ant?nio

OK.

Ant?nio

Example of Portugal style:

English - Tucows site
Brazilian - Site do Tucows
Portugal - s?tio das duas vacas.

Ant?nio

English - "linked to mouse click"
Brazilian - "vinculado ao clique do mouse"
Portuga l- "igado ? prima do rato"

Ant?nio

Agreed ! But it?s not exactly what i meant. "Standards" apply to the whole project. Not just the IDE itself.
By the way, Portugal translations are recently and based in brazilian translation.
Just now they started to adapt to their dialect.

Regards,

Marcelo.

-----Mensagem Original-----

Translations are dynamic. I deal with them in a weekly basis. You must check out the trunk version to get the latest updates.

And just keep in mind that not all lazarus forms get resized when language changes.
So always i have to adjust the words or phrases to fit forms, listboxes, buttons...

Not exactly easy to do.

Regards,

Marcelo.

-----Mensagem Original-----

Ant?nio wrote

English - "linked to mouse click" Brazilian - "vinculado ao clique do mouse" Portuga l- "igado ? prima do rato"

Just a small correction from Portugal :)
Portugal- "ligado ao clique do rato"

We say "Prima uma tecla" (Press a key) for the keyboard but "clique do
rato" for the mouse.

Paulo Costa

This is getting silly!

Portugal - s?tio do Tucows.

The rule is: proper nouns are not to be translated.

Paulo Costa

Probably in Portugal is impossible to say something like "Site do S?tio do Picapau Amarelo".

"S?tio do Picapau Amarelo" is a p?ece of literature in Brazil..

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Paulo Costa :

I noticed that problem also with a German IDE :-(

Now I wonder how the LCL comes with so sophisticated resize, anchoring and child sizing features, but these are not used in the IDE itself, where they are really needed???

DoDi

Site in portuguese doesnt mean nothing

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Which ones?
The layout should be adapted.

Mattias

Which ones? The layout should be adapted.

Well, I could say that we try to adapt ourselves to the layout.

Ant?nio

I liked seeing that the Lazarus RC2 has *English* language by default. IMHO, translated tools never are welcome for more veterans programmers.

2011/10/29 Ant?nio :

Here in Brazil, I indicate Lazarus only in English language. My argument is: be professional, don't use a tool with adapted language! :p~

Would be more interesting a "Download package with translations" option, instead of Lazarus with adapted languages.

Here in Brazil, is more common to you hear "sites" instead of "s?tios". S?tio here in Brazil means a small farm:

S?tio in Brazil: http://goo.gl/1gb0B (shortlink to: http://www.google.com.br/search?tbm=isch&hl=pt-BR&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=643&q=s%C3%ADtio&gbv=2&oq=s%C3%ADtio&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=684l1630l0l1883l5l4l0l0l0l0l325l325l3-1l1l0)

Site in Brazil: http://goo.gl/XMvsx (shortlink to: http://www.google.com.br/search?tbm=isch&hl=pt-BR&source=hp&biw=1366&bih=643&q=s%C3%ADtio&gbv=2&oq=s%C3%ADtio&aq=f&aqi=&aql=1&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=684l1630l0l1883l5l4l0l0l0l0l325l325l3-1l1l0#hl=pt-BR&gbv=2&tbm=isch&sa=1&q=site&pbx=1&oq=site&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=42586l43075l0l43238l4l4l0l0l0l0l0l0ll0l0&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.,cf.osb&fp=d100cdc0e5d7c302&biw=1366&bih=643)

I think awful these translations of Lazarus. And the worst that Lazarus now comes with them by default.

2011/10/29 marcelo.bp :

The "Project Options" is an example. The listview do not get resized when words reach its border.

Do you mean the TreeView?

Just change to brazilian portuguese to make a test, that you will see what i am talking about. (trunk version of course).

Mattias

2011/10/29 marcelo.bp :

I suppose that you are using the last stable version of Lazarus.

Yes. And I would prefer that as it is in RC2.

The trunk version detects the language environment variables and adjusts the language files properly. If you are using a Brazilian portuguese OS (win/linux) the default will be brazilian portuguese translations (pt_BR).

Most programs that offer translation, first offer the translation of Portugal, that is a language not much welcome here in Brazil.

[...]

As i told before, this is really interesting to the newbies. To me, it?s just an option.

Me too. ;) And is an option that I will never use or indicate here in Brazil. (even for newbies :D ).

silvioprog wrote

Here in Brazil, is more common to you hear "sites" instead of "s?tios". S?tio here in Brazil means a small farm:

If you want to propose a change you should at least bring some evidence that you are right. Just because people say in an way it does not prove it is appropriate way to write it in a formal environment. The spoken and formal written language in Brazil differ quite a lot.

The evidence from Marcelo is very strong, if one of the most important government websites uses the form "S?tio", it cannot possibly be wrong.

http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site

Ant?nio

> The "Project Options" is an example. The listview do not get resized when > words reach its border. Do you mean the TreeView?

All my strings fit on this TreeView.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho :

If you want to propose a change you should at least bring some evidence that you are right. Just because people say in an way it does not prove it is appropriate way to write it in a formal environment. The spoken and formal written language in Brazil differ quite a lot.

Do you really think the folks at Google would commit this fail? See:

http://imagebin.org/181460

http://imagebin.org/181459

The evidence from Marcelo is very strong, if one of the most important government websites uses the form "S?tio", it cannot possibly be wrong.

"Eu tenho um s?tio", in Brazil is: "I have a small farm".

"Eu tenho um site", in Brazil is: "I have a site". Speaking with formality or not! (ask a brazilian lawyer if he knows what a s?tio, after, a site)

But do as you like, because I'm wasting my time with this issue of PT-PT or PT-BR! :P~

PS. Portuguese from Portugal is a laughingstock in Brazil, this is the problem. ;)

Interestingly, on Compiler Options > Messages, the strings don't fit the ListBox.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 marcelo.bp :
[...] But please, don?t take your opinion as "the

opinion".

I say the same for you. ;)

Exactly. I am looking forward and expecting that the team solve this once and for all.

Marcelo

-----Mensagem Original-----

2011/10/29 Ant?nio :

In this case, I totally agree with you Ant?nio.

See too: http://pt.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%ADtio (or http://goo.gl/nr8K1)

"S?tio refere-se normalmente a uma propriedade RURAL DE ?REA MODESTA, freq?entemente usada para lazer ou para lavoura." (adapted to english: S?tio typically refers to a modest farm area, often used for leisure or for farming)

So, the writers of Wikipedia failed too? Or don't talk with formality?! :'D

On Compiler Options > Messages, the English strings don't fit on the ListBox and it has not a horizontal scroll bar.

Ant?nio

You are wrong. Just take a look at some brazilian goverment sites like:

http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/

I bet you will find the word "S?tios relacionados".

Marcelo.

-----Mensagem Original-----

The "Project Options" is an example. The listview do not get resized when words reach its border.
Just change to brazilian portuguese to make a test, that you will see what i am talking about.
(trunk version of course).

Regards,

Marcelo.

-----Mensagem Original-----

2011/10/29 marcelo.bp :

As i told before, i am just the maintainer of the brazilian translations. All suggestions are welcomed.

OK. Sorry.

The problem is that some words in Portuguese of Portugal sounds bad here in Brazil. But Ant?nio can help you, in the translations to Brazil.

...I'm still with the idea of ??IDE have the option to "Download package with translations". ^^

On Compiler Options > Messages, the English strings don't fit on the ListBox and it has not a horizontal scroll bar.

Same in English.

Should be changed.

Mattias

Thanks.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Mattias Gaertner :

I suppose that you are using the last stable version of Lazarus.

The trunk version detects the language environment variables and adjusts the language files properly.
If you are using a Brazilian portuguese OS (win/linux) the default will be brazilian portuguese translations (pt_BR).

I am a veteran programmer. I never used a translated IDE before, because this option was not available. (If you
used Delphi, you will now what i am talking about). Indeed most of us, me included, really don?t care.

As i told before, this is really interesting to the newbies. To me, it?s just an option.

Regards,

Marcelo.

-----Mensagem Original-----

In my opinion, dialogboxes should not be resizable as they are on the IDE.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Ant?nio :

Be a professional? Do things like SCRUM or XP.
Don?t loose your time saying that you are professional and the others are not.
Want to be professional, cooperate with de difusion of this tool. Take classes and
teach the children a great language.

We live in a democracy. You have the right to have your opinion. And i have the
right to disagree of it. But please, don?t take your opinion as "the opinion".

Regards,

Marcelo.

-----Mensagem Original-----

Sorry. Yes, the treeview.

Marcelo.

-----Mensagem Original-----

In my opinion, dialogboxes should not be resizable as they are on the IDE.

No one forces you to resize the dialogboxes.

Mattias

silvioprog wrote

"Eu tenho um s?tio", in Brazil is: "I have a small farm".

Do this:

1> Open this site http://www.receita.fazenda.gov.br/ 2> Look in the lower left corner "S?tios Relacionados"

How do you explain that? Do you think this is the government from which country? Portugal?

You can also try a dictionary.

As i told before, i am just the maintainer of the brazilian translations. All suggestions are welcomed.

But this discussion is pointless. It lacks of technical objectives. So, let?s get focused again.

If you have contributions to make, please do it. I am here to take them and do my
best to apply it to the translations. That?s how i contribute to Lazarus.

Too much noise to the mailing list with no real regards,

Marcelo.

-----Mensagem Original-----

2011/10/29 Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho :

You think that the site of Receita (archaic) is right, and the Wikipedia, Google, Visual Studio and more are wrong?!

I think you're needing a Brazilian dictionary.

"Significado de S?tio

s.m. Local; lugar ocupado por um objeto; ch?o descoberto; terreno pr?prio para qualquer constru??o.
Localidade, povoa??o, aldeia.
Lugar assinalado por acontecimento not?vel.
*BRAS. PEQUENA LAVOURA; CH?CARA, QUINTA.*
Morada rural, campo, ro?a.
Peda?o de terra cedido ou arrendado a lavradores de um engenho de a??car, mediante presta??o de servi?os ou partilha dos produtos.".

See: http://www.dicio.com.br/sitio

I see that only waste my time with you.

2011/10/29 silvioprog :
[...]

> You can also try a dictionary.

http://www.priberam.pt/dlpo/default.aspx?pal=s%C3%ADtio (5. [Brasil] Propriedade ou habita??o rural. = CH?CARA, QUINTA) (adapted to english: 5. [Brazil] S?tio = Own farm, or modest farm).

Will the PRIBERAM is also wrong? :o Of course not!!!

E.g. Options, with all frames.

DoDi

Hi,

The word "s?tio", instead of "site", is used across all the Brazilian government documents. The recomendation from the "Manual de Reda??o e Estilo da Presid?ncia da Rep?blica" (
http://www.planalto.gov.br/ccivil_03/manual/manual.htm) is to avoid all words from other languages if there is a word in Portuguese that means the same.

ps. "Manual de Reda??o e Estilo da Presid?ncia da Rep?blica" is the official guide to the form and style of Brazilian Federal Government, like the "U.S. Government Printing Office Style Manual " ( http://www.gpoaccess.gov/stylemanual/browse.html).

Jo?o Marcelo

2011/10/29 silvioprog

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2011/10/29 Jo?o Marcelo Vaz :

This can be used in documents of Brazilian government. But in programming tools, where the language is technical, these terms are not used in caption of controls or menus. See what Google, NetBeans, Eclipse, Notepad++, Visual Studio and other tools use. Only technical words in ALL menus/controls/dialogs.

Is this discussion about any real text in Lazarus SVN?

Because I just did:

edit lazaruside.pt_BR.po

Ctrl+F to search for "S?tio"

zero occurences

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote

Ctrl+F to search for "S?tio"

"site" was also not found in the portuguese part, by the way.

The Splitter of the TreeView seems to not save its position. And TreeView does not have a horizontal scrollbar.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Hans-Peter Diettrich :

Especially on Code Observer window, the Portuguese (probably German too) sentences at the right side are longer than the dialog width, no matter if you resize it.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Ant?nio :

And at the left side the bevel overlaps at least one sentence.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Ant?nio :

If the sentences at the right side are TLabels, they could have 2 lines (and wordwrap) and could move the other controls to the bottom when dialog becomes smaller.

Ant?nio

2011/10/29 Ant?nio :

Why not split the the translations???
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