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Mailing lists / lazarus / 2011-09

Lazarus and accessibility

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Lubos Pintes

Hello,
I am screen reader user. I tried lazarus to see how accessible it is. It is almost inaccessible, no surprise. :-)
But I would like to try make it more accessible, if possible and if my knowledge are sufficient. I have prior experience with Delphi 5/6. I checked out the "latest and greatest" code from SVN and compiled it with FPC 2.4.4.
So let criticize :-).

The first thing, it seems to me that buttons and labels have no caption. I think so because I created application with two buttons and my screen reader reported "Button1 button" "Button2 button" as expected. In Lazarus screen reader reports only "button". So would it be possible to name labels and buttons? Labels because some edit fields for example are not named.
I was unable to set caption in IDE because property grid is unusable. This doesn't matter, the default caption "Buttonx" was sufficient for testing.

Perhaps it is all about reading through lfm files and setting caption property? Or perhaps LCL has some accessibility support? I can try to do it and send patch if it will be accepted. Or any reason I don't see why captions are not set? Or perhaps they are set but screen reader doesn't see them for some reason?
Thank for any comment.

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Vincent Snijders
to Lubos Pintes

2011/9/20 Lubos Pintes :

Show quoted text 10 lines
Hello, I am screen reader user. I tried lazarus to see how accessible it is. It is almost inaccessible, no surprise. :-) But I would like to try make it more accessible, if possible and if my knowledge are sufficient. I have prior experience with Delphi 5/6. I checked out the "latest and greatest" code from SVN and compiled it with FPC 2.4.4. So let criticize :-). The first thing, it seems to me that buttons and labels have no caption.

Strange, because I do see them. Your screen reader may not pick them up.

Show quoted text 7 lines
I think so because I created application with two buttons and my screen reader reported "Button1 button" "Button2 button" as expected. In Lazarus screen reader reports only "button". So would it be possible to name labels and buttons? Labels because some edit fields for example are not named. I was unable to set caption in IDE because property grid is unusable. This doesn't matter, the default caption "Buttonx" was sufficient for testing.

Can you test with TBitBtn? And with TLabel?

Vincent

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Sven Barth
to Lubos Pintes: I am screen reader user. I tried lazarus to see how accessible it is. It is almost…
Lubos Pintes wrote 25 lines
Hello, I am screen reader user. I tried lazarus to see how accessible it is. It is almost inaccessible, no surprise. :-) But I would like to try make it more accessible, if possible and if my knowledge are sufficient. I have prior experience with Delphi 5/6. I checked out the "latest and greatest" code from SVN and compiled it with FPC 2.4.4. So let criticize :-). The first thing, it seems to me that buttons and labels have no caption. I think so because I created application with two buttons and my screen reader reported "Button1 button" "Button2 button" as expected. In Lazarus screen reader reports only "button". So would it be possible to name labels and buttons? Labels because some edit fields for example are not named. I was unable to set caption in IDE because property grid is unusable. This doesn't matter, the default caption "Buttonx" was sufficient for testing. Perhaps it is all about reading through lfm files and setting caption property? Or perhaps LCL has some accessibility support? I can try to do it and send patch if it will be accepted. Or any reason I don't see why captions are not set? Or perhaps they are set but screen reader doesn't see them for some reason? Thank for any comment.

Which operating system are you using?
And if you're using Linux do you know which widgetset (GTK1, GTK2, Qt) you compiled Lazarus for (if you don't know, then it might be GTK2, as this is the default)?

I might not help you regarding accessibilty, but the answers might allow others to more easily help you.

Regards,
Sven

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Sven Barth
to Lubos Pintes: I am screen reader user. I tried lazarus to see how accessible it is. It is almost…
Lubos Pintes wrote 25 lines
Hello, I am screen reader user. I tried lazarus to see how accessible it is. It is almost inaccessible, no surprise. :-) But I would like to try make it more accessible, if possible and if my knowledge are sufficient. I have prior experience with Delphi 5/6. I checked out the "latest and greatest" code from SVN and compiled it with FPC 2.4.4. So let criticize :-). The first thing, it seems to me that buttons and labels have no caption. I think so because I created application with two buttons and my screen reader reported "Button1 button" "Button2 button" as expected. In Lazarus screen reader reports only "button". So would it be possible to name labels and buttons? Labels because some edit fields for example are not named. I was unable to set caption in IDE because property grid is unusable. This doesn't matter, the default caption "Buttonx" was sufficient for testing. Perhaps it is all about reading through lfm files and setting caption property? Or perhaps LCL has some accessibility support? I can try to do it and send patch if it will be accepted. Or any reason I don't see why captions are not set? Or perhaps they are set but screen reader doesn't see them for some reason? Thank for any comment.

Which operating system are you using?
And if you're using Linux do you know which widgetset (GTK1, GTK2, Qt) you compiled Lazarus for (if you don't know, then it might be GTK2, as this is the default)?

I might not be able to help you regarding accessibilty, but the answers might allow others to more easily help you.

Regards,
Sven

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Lubos Pintes
to Sven Barth: Which operating system are you using? And if you're using Linux do you know which…

Hi,
Goot note, I could specify OS.
Windows XP SP3.
D?a 20.9.2011 17:07, Sven Barth wrote / nap?sal(a):

Show quoted text 45 lines
Am 20.09.2011 16:51, schrieb Lubos Pintes: > Hello, > I am screen reader user. I tried lazarus to see how accessible it is. It > is almost inaccessible, no surprise. :-) > But I would like to try make it more accessible, if possible and if my > knowledge are sufficient. I have prior experience with Delphi 5/6. > I checked out the "latest and greatest" code from SVN and compiled it > with FPC 2.4.4. > So let criticize :-). > > The first thing, it seems to me that buttons and labels have no caption. > I think so because I created application with two buttons and my screen > reader reported "Button1 button" "Button2 button" as expected. In > Lazarus screen reader reports only "button". So would it be possible to > name labels and buttons? Labels because some edit fields for example are > not named. > I was unable to set caption in IDE because property grid is unusable. > This doesn't matter, the default caption "Buttonx" was sufficient for > testing. > > Perhaps it is all about reading through lfm files and setting caption > property? Or perhaps LCL has some accessibility support? I can try to do > it and send patch if it will be accepted. Or any reason I don't see why > captions are not set? Or perhaps they are set but screen reader doesn't > see them for some reason? > Thank for any comment. Which operating system are you using? And if you're using Linux do you know which widgetset (GTK1, GTK2, Qt) you compiled Lazarus for (if you don't know, then it might be GTK2, as this is the default)? I might not help you regarding accessibilty, but the answers might allow others to more easily help you. Regards, Sven -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Lubos Pintes
to Sven Barth: And another question out of curiosity: Is it disturbing for you if quotes from previous…

Hi,
Quotes are OK but reply at the end are not. It is better either to comment parts of message or nicely write reply before quote. Thank :-)
D?a 20.9.2011 17:09, Sven Barth wrote / nap?sal(a):

Show quoted text 12 lines
And another question out of curiosity: Is it disturbing for you if quotes from previous mails are left in answers? Regards, Sven -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Lukasz Sokol
to Lubos Pintes

Hi Lubos,

Off-topic, but I think you should warn people upfront that this is the case, as top-posting is generally regarded as a no-no on newsgroups. You definitively qualify for an exception from this rule.

Lukasz

Lubos Pintes wrote 17 lines
Hi, Quotes are OK but reply at the end are not. It is better either to comment parts of message or nicely write reply before quote. Thank :-) D?a 20.9.2011 17:09, Sven Barth wrote / nap?sal(a): > And another question out of curiosity: Is it disturbing for you if > quotes from previous mails are left in answers? > > Regards, Sven > > -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing > list > http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus > -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Lubos Pintes
to Lukasz Sokol

Maybe I am stupid but I don't understand which badness I made, sorry :-). D?a 20.9.2011 17:45, Lukasz Sokol wrote / nap?sal(a):

Show quoted text 32 lines
Hi Lubos, Off-topic, but I think you should warn people upfront that this is the case, as top-posting is generally regarded as a no-no on newsgroups. You definitively qualify for an exception from this rule. Lukasz On 20/09/2011 16:35, Lubos Pintes wrote: > Hi, Quotes are OK but reply at the end are not. It is better either > to comment parts of message or nicely write reply before quote. Thank > :-) D?a 20.9.2011 17:09, Sven Barth wrote / nap?sal(a): >> And another question out of curiosity: Is it disturbing for you if >> quotes from previous mails are left in answers? >> >> Regards, Sven >> >> -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing >> list >> http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus >> > > -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing > list > http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Lukasz Sokol
to Lubos Pintes

Hi Lubos,

no you did not do anything bad :-) You have not caused any badness.

What I mean is : when you answer to somebody on newsgroups, and somewhere somebody doesn't know you top-post because of screen-reader, then they may give you bad time, because they don't know.

so a simple [screen reader friendly] first line of post will save it for everybody :)

I hope you won't need even that here now :) because the watchdogs read it and will remember :)

Regards,
Lukasz

Lubos Pintes wrote 19 lines
Maybe I am stupid but I don't understand which badness I made, sorry :-). D?a 20.9.2011 17:45, Lukasz Sokol wrote / nap?sal(a): > Hi Lubos, > > Off-topic, but I think you should warn people upfront that this is the case, > as top-posting is generally regarded as a no-no on newsgroups. > You definitively qualify for an exception from this rule. > > Lukasz > > On 20/09/2011 16:35, Lubos Pintes wrote: >> Hi, Quotes are OK but reply at the end are not. It is better either >> to comment parts of message or nicely write reply before quote. Thank >> :-) D?a 20.9.2011 17:09, Sven Barth wrote / nap?sal(a): >>> And another question out of curiosity: Is it disturbing for you if >>> quotes from previous mails are left in answers? >>> >>> Regards, Sven >>>

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Lubos Pintes
to Vincent Snijders: 2011/9/20 Lubos Pintes : Strange, because I do see them. Your screen reader may not pick…

Hi,
Probably the problem is TBitBtn. Although after heavy fighting with the IDE I was able to set the Caption, screen reader is unable to see it. I made an experiment where I put two buttons, one TButton, and one TBitBtn to form. I was confused, because those component have window class name "Button". I mean win32 window class name. So it looked like "Ok, it is Button, regular Windows control, but is not named".

Request for some clever guy here: Can someone please point me to part of LCL source code where windows things are made? I mean where handles are created, window classes defined etc.
To make support for screen reader seems to be challenge because it seems that everything in LCL has the "Window" class.
D?a 20.9.2011 17:05, Vincent Snijders wrote / nap?sal(a):

Show quoted text 30 lines
2011/9/20 Lubos Pintes: > Hello, > I am screen reader user. I tried lazarus to see how accessible it is. It is > almost inaccessible, no surprise. :-) > But I would like to try make it more accessible, if possible and if my > knowledge are sufficient. I have prior experience with Delphi 5/6. > I checked out the "latest and greatest" code from SVN and compiled it with > FPC 2.4.4. > So let criticize :-). > > The first thing, it seems to me that buttons and labels have no caption. Strange, because I do see them. Your screen reader may not pick them up. > I think so because I created application with two buttons and my screen > reader reported "Button1 button" "Button2 button" as expected. In Lazarus > screen reader reports only "button". So would it be possible to name labels > and buttons? Labels because some edit fields for example are not named. > I was unable to set caption in IDE because property grid is unusable. This > doesn't matter, the default caption "Buttonx" was sufficient for testing. > Can you test with TBitBtn? And with TLabel? Vincent -- _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Vincent Snijders
to Lubos Pintes

2011/9/20 Lubos Pintes :

Show quoted text 8 lines
Hi, Probably the problem is TBitBtn. Although after heavy fighting with the IDE I was able to set the Caption, screen reader is unable to see it. I made an experiment where I put two buttons, one TButton, and one TBitBtn to form. I was confused, because those component have window class name "Button". I mean win32 window class name. So it looked like "Ok, it is Button, regular Windows control, but is not named".

The caption is not set, because the button is ownerdrawn in procedure DrawBitBtnImage.

Request for some clever guy here: Can someone please point me to part of LCL source code where windows things are made? I mean where handles are created, window classes defined etc.

TWin32WSBitBtn.CreateHandle in lazarus/lcl/interfaces/win32/win32wsbuttons.pp

Vincent

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