Hello,

I noticed some changes to menus' captions and I disagree with them. AFAIK the "standard" for menu captions is to have '...' (ellipsis) to indicate the menu doesn't have direct action, so it should be used for any menu that invokes a dialog, no matter it's modal or not.

Best regards,
Fl?vio

Fl?vio Etrusco wrote

so it should be used for any menu that invokes a dialog, no matter it's modal or not.

That's not the case in Mozilla Thunderbird. Only modal dialogs have the ellipsis in the menu item. Examples:

* 'Tools > Preferences' does not.
* 'File > New > Message' does not.
* 'File > Print' does because it is modal.
etc...

At least this is the case under Linux.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Graeme Geldenhuys kirjoitti tiistai, 19. huhtikuuta 2011 09:35:01:

Yes, the conventions are not very strict in this case.

Now the use of 3 dots In Lazarus is more consistent than it used to be. I can add the dots also to all View-menu items + other places that show dialogs, if it's the preferred way. What do others say?

User interfaces are difficult to design because there is no single right solution, it is always a matter of opinion.

Juha

Juha wrote

User interfaces are difficult to design because there is no single right solution, it is always a matter of opinion.

Look at windows (xp/vista) and osx design guidlines.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin

In that case, something like a browser's New -> New Window should be followed by an ellipsis. Conventionally, it is not, which suggests that the criterion is whether the action is relevant to the current window in which case it would usually (but not necessarily) be modal.

As another example, a browser's Edit -> Find in This Page... brings up a non-modal dialogue associated with the current window.

Hello Lazarus-List,

Tuesday, April 19, 2011, 8:35:01 AM, you wrote:

GG> That's not the case in Mozilla Thunderbird. Only modal dialogs have the GG> ellipsis in the menu item. Examples:
GG> * 'Tools > Preferences' does not.
GG> * 'File > New > Message' does not.
GG> * 'File > Print' does because it is modal.
GG> etc...
GG> At least this is the case under Linux.

The "..." is added when the menu entry is an action verb and this action requires further configuration/data.

Examples:

Open: If the option just only open the file selector no "...", but if it opens a configuration window to select which open it should have it.

Print: If it prints directly no dots, but if configuration is opened then "..."

Select All: If selects all text no "...", but if a dialog is opened to define what to select the elipsis must be added.

Configure: The verb itself indicates a new dialog, so it will never present an "..."

Ellipsis indicates that a verb need more configuration to finish its action. 98% times the opened dialog is a modal dialog.

Thanks a lot for all answers. Sorry for the noise, I stand corrected :-)

Best regards,
Fl?vio

Fl?vio Etrusco kirjoitti tiistai, 19. huhtikuuta 2011 23:42:31:

Thanks a lot for all answers. Sorry for the noise, I stand corrected :-)

It is not noise, those are valid comments.

It seems the convention varies from program to program. For example the KDE programs I am looking have File -> Open ... (with dots) although it just opens the KDE open dialog.
Then they have many items that open a big dialog yet have no dots.

I don't know if the Lazarus menus are "corrent" now but at least they are consistent (more or less).
If the modeless window menu items need '...' then it must be added to all of them. I personally like to have them visually different from modal dialogs because those menu entries don't always open a new window, they can also bring focus to an existing already opened window.

Juha