Hi,

While following some of the discussion about "FPC and Lazarus on ARM" it made me think of a question I wanted to ask any Linux users, and I know here are quite a few.

Is it only Ubuntu that cannibalized the Linux run-levels beyond recognition, or is the same thing done in Debian too? I have zero experience with Debian.

eg:
* Ubuntu doesn't have the standard run-levels defined like normal Linux distros (eg: Slackware, Fedora etc) have.
- There is no "Multiuser without NFS" - run-level 2
- No "Full Multiuser mode" console login - run-level 3
- X11 - run-level 5
In Ubuntu run-levels 2-5 are all the same thing. F**ken stupid!

* Ubuntu use something called upstart which seems to have no editor or any logic behind controlling what should start when. Run-Levels have worked fine for decades, so why did Ubuntu have to break it!

On a side note:
---------------

[warning: ranting on, so you might want to stop reading here]

In recent weeks I have been taking a look at various Linux distros again
- something I haven't really done for the last 8 years. Just to see what is out there, because I have been using Ubuntu as my sole Linux distro since 6.06. Overall, it seems Linux distros are getting worse and worse with every release.

* They can't standardize on a technology. Lets take audio. First something else, then OSS, then ALSA, then PulseAudio... what next, and in how many months? A technology can never mature under Linux.
* DBUS, HAL etc is in the same boat as audio. Technology used keeps changing every few months, so something totaly different and untested.
* All recent distros seem to have screwed-up audio. How damn difficult can it be??? It just works under Mac OS X, Windows, Haiku, OS/2 etc.. I tried Fedora 14, Ubuntu 10.04... My audio mixer volume settings are all set at 100%, yet I can hardly hear anything when an application plays sound. This used to work just fine in Ubuntu 8.04.4, on the exact same system!
* Switching desktop environments (Gnome -> KDE) on the same system gives me totally different audio levels!
* KDE 4.x is rubbish compared to KDE 3.5 (it's like Vista for Linux)
* Gnome is getting slower by the minute!
* X11 seems overall slower than a few year back.
* Fonts look totally different between KDE, Gnome etc when switching desktop environments on the same system. How damn hard can this really be as well, to get a consistent end-user experience... after all, they all run on the same X11 GUI.
* Newer distros can now successfully make my P4 3Ghz laptop with 2GB memory and a 128MB ATI Radeon video card come to a crawl - with a new install! Where are the days when Linux was fast and nippy! Even Windows 7 runs faster on that system than Linux.

I'm seriously running out of OS options here. Linux is frustrating the hell out of me. Mac OS X doesn't run on my PC system. Windows is not something I want to go back to, after experiencing the flexibility that Linux had to offer. Haiku has great potential, but still to young for a day-to-day work system. Maybe it's time I go back to my typewriter - it never crashed on me, and the audio level (clicking sound as you type) was at a consistent level even when I changed paper or the ribbon. :-)

Regards,
- Graeme -

I just upgraded form Suse 11.1 ... 11.3 to Suse 11.4 on several Desktops an Servers. I'm quite happy right now. Since yesterday I happily run Debian on an old small Slug to have it work as a NAS.

-Michael

Michael Schnell wrote

I just upgraded form Suse 11.1 ... 11.3 to Suse 11.4 on several Desktops an Servers. I'm quite happy right now.

I used to run Suse back when 8.0 and 9.2 was out. Then it was a KDE only distro (the only KDE distro I ever tried). I believe it is now a Gnome distro (mainly), but I just had a quick look and see they have a KDE version too. Any suggestion on which to choose? Is Suse deb or rpm based? Does it have normal run-levels defined?

Since yesterday I happily run Debian on an old small Slug to have it work as a NAS.

That's what made me think that I must maybe try Debian directly. I quite like deb packages and the apt system (and use AptOnCD a lot), and got used to the Debian filesystem layout/design from working with Ubuntu. But lately Ubuntu seems to be going off it's rockers.

Regards,
- Graeme -

I think the Debian policy is that you should configure yourself the runlevels 2-5 as you need.

2011/3/29 Graeme Geldenhuys :

Still, it is off-topic.

Please use the lazarus-other mailing list for mail not about Lazarus targeted at Lazarus users:
http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus-other

Vincent

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

I believe it is now a Gnome distro (mainly), but I just had a quick look and see they have a KDE version too. Any suggestion on which to choose?

You have several Desktop choices out of the Box: KDE, Gnome and some small ones. I use KDE on the Workstations and just "init 3" in the servers (sometimes attaching graphically via NX)

Is Suse deb or rpm based?

RPM

Does it have normal run-levels defined?

you have B (boot), 1(single user) , 2 (multi user), 3 (multi-user with network), 5 multi-user with network and GUI, and 6 (shutdown)

I of course did use apt to install and upgrade the system, but I only followed the instructions I found. The file system layout seem quite similar with Suse and Debian.Debian is lacking the rcxxx scripts pointing to /etc/init.d/xxx, but you can easily create them or just go "/etc/init.d/xxx"instead. The run level scrips in /etc/init.d/xx scripts themselves seem to work quite similar.

-Michael