All of this is on Windows XP SP3 in a VMWare virtual machine. Originally I installed Lazarus + FPC from the downloadable setup file for Windows. It installed FPC 2.2.4 and Lazarus 0.9.28.2.

Then I have installed the FPC version 2.4.2 and also retrieved the Lazarus sources from SVN (0_9_28_fixes branch) and recompiled this Lazarus. (I have not touched the original installed Lazarus).

I have also created a config folder in both my old 2.2.4 Lazarus and the new one. The shortcuts that start Lazarus have been modified to redirect the configuration to the respective config directories. Finally I have copied the config contents from the userprofile location to the config dir of my two lazarus.

My problem now is what happens when I open the project I had created in and worked on using the 0.9.28.2 lazarus version in Lazarus_SVN. The IDE displays an error box with this contents:

Access violation
Press OK to ignore and risk data corruption.
Press Cancel to kill the program.

If I click Cancel then lazarus disappears completely..

If I click OK I get into Lazarus but now the test application seems to be running (the form will not accept any new items and the alignment dots are not present). But it does not react as it would if running, I cannot close it and the button does not do anything (it should change the contents of the edit boxes).

If I now try to close Lazarus it won't shut down at all. :-( TaskManager shows 100% CPU utilizaion and the lazarus process is using 90-95% of this...
I have to kill lazarus through TaskManager.

If I go back and start the old Lazarus 0.9.28.2 I can successfully open the same project just fine and also do a quick compile using the FPC 2.2.4.

The project itself only contains a form with 3 edit boxes and one button. Additionally there are a few class definition files I am working on, but these are not yet used by the main form.

What in the world can be causing this and how do I go about trying to trace it down? As it is now I cannot use the fixes Lazarus with FPC 2.4.2 and my project...

Bo Berglund

Bo, one of the options to narrow your projects to smallest files set possible to for the problem to be always reproducible and post the data to mantis. I did it several times and impressed how fast the bug are acknowledged and even solved (if it's really always reproducible).

You even can try to debug lazarus itself, it's indeed as easy as Paul Ishenin described (open lazarus.lpi, press F9), after you open you project in the second ide, the first IDE will probably show the place in a source where the access violations appears.

Personally, after some time I didn't consider 9.28 worth the usage since so many changes have made since that version and working in 9.29 you contribute more since the many-many bugs of 9.28 are already solved.

My few cents...

Max Vlasov
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20101128/cdb49101/attachment.html>

2010/11/28 Bo Berglund :

The lazarus fixes branch is broken, while I tried to fix compilation with fpc 2.4.2. Don't use it.

Vincent

What should I do to be able to use FPC 2.4.2 then?

2010/11/28 Bo Berglund :

Use lazarus 0.9.29 from trunk.

Vincent

Like this? I'm not very good at svn:

svn co http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk lazarus

2010/11/28 Bo Berglund :

Yes.

Vincent

Retrieved the trunk version into folder lazarus_trunk (I renamed after SVN was done, is it possible to redirect the SVN checkout into a folder of your own choosing?).

Then "make clean all" and fixed a shortcut to start lazarus with the necessary config redirection.

This time I could load the old project and it compiled fine, but there were a lot more messages and warnings than in the version I had before. Some are from compiling synaser.pas and saome from my own code. The ones from my code actually point to things I need to fix....

One new item (at least I have not seen it before):

There is a small new window named "IDEProgressWindow" that is shown and I cannot close it. What is the purpose and is it supposed to be there?

Bo Berglund

Op 2010-11-28 22:37, Max Vlasov het geskryf:

Personally, after some time I didn't consider 9.28 worth the usage since so many changes have made since that version and working in 9.29 you contribute more since the many-many bugs of 9.28 are already solved.

Yes, and consider the other side of the coin. It will also add many many new bugs. I also use 0.9.28.3 in a VM session for our Windows development, and testing of our projects. I have no problems at the moment, but I don't dare update that VM either, because I'm pretty sure if I do, it will have lots of new problems I don't need now.

The Golden Rule of using Lazarus
--------------------------------
If you find a version or revision that works for you - stick with it for as long as possible! Do not be tempted to upgrade, because what works today, will most likely be broken tomorrow. Mantis reports of proof of that. [sorry if this offends some, but the truth hurts sometimes]

Regards,
- Graeme -

The syntax of the SVN checkout command is the following:

svn co URL DIRECTORY

or

svn checkout URL DIRECTORY

So just change the "lazarus" after the url
"http://svn.freepascal.org/svn/lazarus/trunk" to the directory you want.

Yes, it's supposed to be there. It scans the FPC source directory in a seperate thread.

Regards,
Sven

On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Graeme Geldenhuys <

Graeme, I don't what to say, you have your good points here, besides, I'm not so experienced in fpc/lazarus as you are :) Maybe I'd change my observations to this point: if there's a project constantly evolving I think you're right. In my case, when I recently started to dig deep into lazarus, I do very different actions every day, in many different dialogs, trying to adjust, compile, compare the results for several of my existing delphi units and programs. As a result, I noticed several problems in 0.9.28 and with some of them I could not live anymore. For example, one of them was related to opening one particular package, selecting unit, and getting AV after selecting "remove". When I wanted to report about this bug, I tried the same with svn version, and there it was gone. So how can I find a version that works for me in this case? In terms of stability, they're all still in progress, both 0.9.28 and svn at least once wiped by lpk to zero size, I'm already used to it :)

Max
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20101129/07529af4/attachment.html>

Op 2010-11-29 10:52, Max Vlasov het geskryf:

All I'm saying, is don't be fooled by the bells and whistles + eye-candy of 0.9.29. The grass is not always greener on the other side. So you have to try with trial and error to find a version or revision (or your own custom branch with own fixes applied). And when you find one that works, stick with it!

Some 0.9.29 issues I hate.

* Focused items in list views, treeviews etc have grey background and grey text, so when I have an item selected, I can't read it. This occurs in Messages Window, any treeview in the IDE (treeviews are used all over in the IDE) etc. [finally fixed a little while back, but has been around for months]

* Debugging is seriously broken in 0.9.29. Watch windows don't update, Local Vars window shows old values, breakpoints don't trigger, break point hit count doesn't work. This all causes major headaches while debugging - hence I don't use the IDE for debugging at all any more. I waisted way to many hours hunting down a bug, just to find out that the IDE is actually the cause of the "false information".

* Closing a tab via X button, closes all other tabs except the one I wanted closed. Major frustration!

* Edit cursor in the editor window disappears

* IDE doesn't remember my keyboard shortcuts I setup. So after every restart, I have to re-configure my keyboard shortcuts. Now I just leave my PC on 24-7 and don't close the IDE at all - until it crashes that is.

* Some windows work in one widgetset, but not in others. Procedure List under GTK2 comes to mind.

...the list goes on, but I think you get the idea. These things used to work, but don't in 0.9.29, so latest revision is not always "better" than 0.9.28.x either.

I mainly develop under Linux (and recompile and test under Windows). My Lazarus IDE is a mix of a relatively working revision, and then my own fixes applied to it. But lately I tend to use MSEide a lot more as well. Simply because MSEide seems a lot more stable over the long run than Lazarus IDE.

The way it looks now, 0.9.30 will never be reached because there are just so many regression bugs, it is simply unbelievable.

Regards,
- Graeme -

<pretext: before starting a list => read the end of my mail>

The truth in itself is not necessarily hurtful (or as hurtful). It often is the way how it is told or what is presented as the truth. All of what you say is true, it is part of the truth. (Maybe It is your pick of the truth). It is not "the truth" as in the complete truth. There is much much more to the truth.
Every truth has good and bad in it. If anyone chooses to tell the bad points only, and then announce it as the truth, well yes, that does hurt.

And btw quote: "version or revision". As for revisions it is clearly said that they are not tested at all, so on this part you are absolutely right. But it is not considered a problem.
There is gratitude to everyone who uses snapshots or SVN and helps the development by pointing out the issues found.
But using snapshots is meant to be experimental, it is meant to be one way of helping the development.
It is *not* meant to be used for development. If you do use the snapshots outside there purpose, and you complain that they do not work for what you attempt, then sorry, but they are not indented to work for that purpose.

And to be clear. That does not mean that "versions" (released versions) are 100% absolutely fault free. How could a small team of people (working in there spare time only) archive, what no one (no team however big or small) has archived before?

And what about mantis? Go to other bugtrackers of other software (of reasonable size). You will find with many, they are neither empty, nor free of regression-reports.

Another bit of the truth is that Lazarus is not different from other software. The truth (or rather another part of it) is that no Software is infallible.

Apart from this: Yes there are certain areas where Lazarus may have shortcomings compared to the average, but so there are areas where Lazarus is above the average. If anyone want to start a list, I will *not* enter this senseless battle, as both sides can create huge lists, simply pointing out what is already known, and what has been said many many times before.

If anyone wants to contribute, and help improving them => please do

Martin

What's mantis number of this issue ?

Martin is working on this afaik.

* Closing a tab via X button, closes all other tabs except the one I wanted closed. Major frustration!

Cannot reproduce (Fedora 3 + gtk2-2.12, Fedora 13 + gtk2-2.20)

zeljko

Have you tested, since I added the comments to your issue?

Yes the string (0 vs 1 based) issue still exist. (but it's not a 0.9.29 issue, it's been there forever. Yes it desperately needs to be fixed, but it isn't that easy to be done. It will be fixed as either gdb learns to do it, or any alternative (e.g a pascal driven debugger (which afaik a project exists)) will be ready.

I understand that to the end user it makes no different if the problem is Lazarus gdb, or fpc => it's all the same a problem.

If you find other issue with the debugger, then please let us know.

And yes, debugging was worse in 0.9.29 than in 0.9.28 => it is a snapshot, it is not tested, it is all explained and all warned about. See my other mail.

> * Closing a tab via X button, closes all other tabs except the one I wanted > closed. Major frustration! Cannot reproduce (Fedora 3 + gtk2-2.12, Fedora 13 + gtk2-2.20)

Yes the bug is well known.

Currently only a partial workaround exists (which is by no way a fix of the issue, not even close):
- you can disable "ctrl" for the tab-closing only. Navigation still works, but tabs-closing will ignore ctrl.

And yes, I'd too rather would have a fix for the issue, than just a cheap and partial workaround. But a full fix will take more time.

Martin

2010/11/29 zeljko :

http://mantis.freepascal.org/view.php?id=16376

Vincent

Martin wrote

On 29/11/2010 11:18, zeljko wrote: > On Monday 29 November 2010 10:48, Graeme Geldenhuys wrote: >> * Debugging is seriously broken in 0.9.29. Watch windows don't update,

....

And yes, debugging was worse in 0.9.29 than in 0.9.28 => it is a snapshot, it is not tested, it is all explained and all warned about. See my other mail.

And just to add:
I do not want to discourage anyone from using 0.9.29 => just clarify what to expect, and what to use it for, and what not to use it for.

And everyone using it, and pointing out issues, has my thanks for doing so.

So as for pointing out the issues: Thanks

Martin

Op 2010-11-29 13:02, Martin het geskryf:

And btw quote: "version or revision". As for revisions it is clearly said that they are not tested at all, so on this part you are absolutely right. But it is not considered a problem.

There was a reason I said "version or revisions". First, a tagged version in Lazarus's repository is a moving target (very weird, but that is the way Lazarus team works with SubVersion tags). So you can't simply say tag 0.9.28.3 and think that points to a specific commit in the repository.

The other reason was that after some back-ports were applied to 0.9.28.x branch, it broken 0.9.28 for a few months. So due to that, and some other broken feature I can't recall now, I was forced to move to 0.9.29 for my day-to-day development environment.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Op 2010-11-29 13:30, Martin het geskryf:

If you find other issue with the debugger, then please let us know.

As for reporting Lazarus IDE bugs in general... To date, I have reported 216 bugs already. I feel bad having to add more, so I stopped reporting issues.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Is it possible to use Eclipse with FPC?

Op 2010-11-29 17:13, Bo Berglund het geskryf:

Is it possible to use Eclipse with FPC?

I have seen a Free Pascal add-on for Eclipse (Google will find it for you), but to date, I have never used Eclipse for any real work. I simply loaded it up to see how it looks.

If you want something small (easy to compile and install), and very fast with lots of features, then I recommend you look at MSEide too.

On a side note:
It might be worth (for developers using LCL in their apps), to create some stand-alone LCL Form Designer app too (maybe lots of IDE code could be reused). This will give you guys a lot more flexibility in what IDE or development environment / tool chain you want to use. In example, fpGUI's Form Designer is a stand-alone app. I frequently switch between Lazarus IDE, MSEide, gEdit and jEdit and can continue developing as normal and do visual form designs. Even more so, because I don't use GDB (or some IDE gui front-end for GDB) any more for debugging either.

Regards,
- Graeme -

You should not feel bad for something like bug reports. See it this way: by reporting a bug you are helping the developers to improve Lazarus although you have not coded anything (regarding the bug).

Regards,
Sven

You shouldn't think about 0.9.28.3 as a tag. It's a branch (it isn't inside the "branch" directory without reason) and thus fixes from trunk are applied there if the need arises.
If you look at Lazarus' "tag" directory you'll see that the tags don't contain many fixes after the tagging and even then they seem to be small ones to get the release stable and worth to be released.

Regards,
Sven

I talked too soon!
The new Lazarus was indeed compiled with FPC 2.4.2, but since I copied the old config dir it still uses the FPC 2.2.4 of the old Lazarus...

Now that I discovered this I changed it in the IDE Environment/Options dialogue but I can no longer quick compile my project. Right now it stops on a piece of code I have not written myself:

SdpoSerial\sdposerial.pas(37,7) Fatal: Can't find unit LResources used
by SdpoSerial

Notice: I *have* opened the sdposeriallaz package in this instance of Lazarus and then closed it again. According to earlier discussions this would tell Lazarus where it is located.
And since this package is not mine I have no clue as to what LResources means...

Bo Berglund

The error means that spdoserial is using LCL but does not has it as a requirement in the package options. Please set LCL as a required package for the sdposeriallaz and the problem should gone.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin

If so, why did it work when I used FPC 2.2.4 but not with 2.4.2? Any dependency should not change just because I change compiler version, right?
Notice that this is just a standard package that I downloaded in order to handle the serial port communications I am working with. I have no idea about the inner workings of this package and it worked just fine with the old Lazarus/FPC. I have not changed any of its files.

And then:
How can I "set LCL as required package"? I am just a new user of Lazarus and this is my first project...
How can I find "LCL"?

Bo Berglund

Didn't have to do this...
In fact I re-evaluated the Lazarus configuration and changed a few remaining paths to point into the correct lazarus version folder. So not only the fpc paths had to be changed, also the others. After this the project compiled all right.

Question:
---------
Can one use environment variables in the path specifiers in lazarus configuration instead of fixed paths?
If so what is the correct syntax?

With environment variables it would be possible to set these in a lazarus start script before launcing lazarus and then the config would not have to be

Bo Berglund
Developer in Sweden

Bo Berglund wrote

If so, why did it work when I used FPC 2.2.4 but not with 2.4.2? Any dependency should not change just because I change compiler version, right?

I thought you've changed lazarus version too?

Notice that this is just a standard package that I downloaded in order to handle the serial port communications I am working with. I have no idea about the inner workings of this package and it worked just fine with the old Lazarus/FPC. I have not changed any of its files.

Where did you get this package? It is not in lazarus components directory - so I'm not aware of how it is maintained.

And then: How can I "set LCL as required package"? I am just a new user of Lazarus and this is my first project... How can I find "LCL"?

Open that package in IDE. You will see something like this: http://imagebin.org/125412

I pressed to "Add" button and choosed a tab with name "New Requirement". Find LCL in the dropdown list and press "Ok" button.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin

The package SdpoSerial misses the unit LResources. This can mean: The package SdpoSerial misses the dependency to the package LCL, but more likely is that the compiler found a lresources.ppu from an older compiler. Compile the package with -vut. Maybe you added a search path too much.

Notice: I *have* opened the sdposeriallaz package in this instance of Lazarus and then closed it again. According to earlier discussions this would tell Lazarus where it is located.

Yes, but since sdposeriallaz is missing something in the LCL, you have to check if the right LCL package is used.

Mattias