I've tried to intall Lazarus on a fresh Ubuntu (9.10) system, and ran into any number of problems, that will effectivly prevent any newcomer to ever give Lazarus an try :-(

The official Ubuntu packages did not allow to install a working version of Lazarus, so I consulted the Lazarus homepage. If somebody can update the Ubuntu repository, I'd give that solution another try.

The first show stopper in the Lazarus homepage is the lack of installation instructions. I think that the typical newbie will follow the "Downloads" link, then others in random order.

Downloads
=========
In SourceForge he'll find a bunch of files, with no indication of the most appropriate one. There is a
56 MB i386.deb.tar
140 MB i386.deb
without any explanation of the difference.

Both packages result in more problems, preventing an immediate installation :-(

FAQ
===
I can find nothing about Installation there :-(

Wiki
====
The wiki main page again lacks any hints about the installation. No topic "install" can be found, but a *very* patient user may find in page text matches "9. Installing Lazarus". I'm not very familiar with wiki, could somebody add an forwarder for a search for "install" or "installation"? And possibly explain the difference between "Getting Lazarus" and "Installing Lazarus"?

Daily Snapshots
===============
The choice (by OS and package type) is somewhat clear. The Linux deb's lack an hint like for the rpm's "needs fpc and fpc-src", but the newbie may guess that this applies as well - but there's only a fpc.tar, nothing for fpc-src. Okay, he'll find out later...

The hint "YOU ARE USING COMPLETELY UNTESTED SOFTWARE" is not very encouraging, but fortunately there's a wiki link, that - oh Lord - gives no further clues :-(

Getting the source
==================
A newbie wants to *run* Lazarus, and doesn't care about source code, so the link should reflect the title and content of the linked page: "Getting Lazarus".

Else this page looks most promising to Ubuntu users, which are addressed in a specific topic - fine :-)
I had no time yet to follow the procedures. It would be nice if the scripts could be downloaded, instead of copy&paste and chmod and ...

There's another link to an alternative repository, that looks well supported, but I'll come back to it only in case of trouble with other methods. [I'm addressing the official Lazarus maintainers here]

------------------------------------

So much for part 1 of my odyssee. I hope that the mentioned flaws will be fixed soon, so that I know where and how to proceed. I've tried so hard, for several days, to make Lazarus run on any of my Linux systems, and now I'm so frustrated that none of my attempts succeeded. The worst experience is a defunct openSuse 10.3, that stopped to install or uninstall *any* software, after an attempt to upgrade to fpc 2.4 :-(

As it looks to me now, I do not only see Lazarus in a downward spiral, instead the spiral already has reached ground zero :-(

If somebody can point out the most promising path to follow, I can report in part 2 what further trouble prevented me from installing a working version of Lazarus that way. It's ridiculous when some tar comes with a bunch of packages, which cannot be installed due to dependency issues. I'd expect at least a README that explains the required order of installation, and/or refers to other resources with according explanations.

DoDi

Thank you, Dodi, for pursuing this problem!

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

The official Ubuntu packages did not allow to install a working version of Lazarus, so I consulted the Lazarus homepage. If somebody can update the Ubuntu repository, I'd give that solution another try.

Before installing, add to the Synaptic software sources the Lazarus Ubuntu repository to get the latest stable lazarus/fpc versions.

Hi,

I don't know the "real" way, but i did the following:

1. add the repository "deb http://ppa.launchpad.net/ximion/ppa/ubuntu karmic main"
2. install fpc 2.4.0 and src
(2.5. don't know exactly if i did it, but should be better to check dependencies of the normal 0.9.28-Package)
3. svn checkout of Lazarus in homedir (I used the directory my windowsinstallation and made an update)
4. make all

I did this some weeks ago on a Xubuntu 9.10 64bit.

Hi

As it looks to me now, I do not only see Lazarus in a downward spiral, instead the spiral already has reached ground zero :-(

Enough of the "downward spiral".

It is like the "can't write to serial port" thread month ago. If you are a developer, you MUST understand your system. The "next, next, next, finish" only works for windows.

Try to learn about your Ubuntu package system, then try to install a complex DEVELOPER tool.

I am not a contributor, I am not a beta tester, I am not a translator, I am not a GNU/Linux expert. I just do electronics with serial port data aquisition, and Free Pascal/Lazarus is a great tool for quick apps development. I use Debian (since Potato): never a problem installing Lazarus (since 0.7.x). You must read and learn how your system works. GNU/Linux, BSD, etc. are not trivial systems. You MUST understand what are you doing.

Gustavo

ps: excuse my english.

DoDi, what is the Ubuntu version? IIRC in 9.10 installed and worked for me with no major problem... (from Ubuntu's own repository)

The first show stopper in the Lazarus homepage is the lack of installation instructions. I think that the typical newbie will follow the "Downloads" link, then others in random order.

(...)

Sure, pages and links needs some better organization/presentation. Never had this much problem as you describe, though.

I'll install a 9.10 VM image here and see if we can go through the issues :)

Best regards,
Fl?vio

Thanks, I'll give that a try, if I can figure out how-to.

This should be mentioned in the wiki, too.

DoDi

It is like the "can't write to serial port" thread month ago. If you are a developer, you MUST understand your system. The "next, next, next, finish" only works for windows.

It also should work for other systems. Some time ago I could install Lazarus from RPM's on openSuse, so why not on Ubuntu from DEB packages? (I'll come back to the RPM problems later, when I have another working Suse system)

Try to learn about your Ubuntu package system, then try to install a complex DEVELOPER tool.

A complex tool does not necessarily mean a complicated installation, based on rudimentary documentation.

Somebody else asked me whether Ubuntu was a usable system for developers at all, since the supported software (e.g. boost library) seems to be pretty old. I ran into more problems, coming from openSUSE and trying to install e.g. VMWare and Lazarus, and Ubuntu in a VM. The encountered problems suggest to me that Ubuntu is dedicated to end users, who do not deserve anything but the officially supported software (the click-click install you mentioned).

But actually I try to separate the Ubuntu issues from the Lazarus issues. I hope to solve my Ubuntu-specific problems in the chat, while the Lazarus issues should be fixed in the Lazarus packages, wiki and source code.

DoDi

Before installing, add to the Synaptic software sources the Lazarus Ubuntu repository to get the latest stable lazarus/fpc versions.

What's "the" Lazarus Ubuntu repository? The one mentioned in the wiki?

DoDi

what is that and how would it be done... remember, this is for newbies who may or may not know what the command line is or how to use it ;)

it should be able to be done it... what? three steps?

foo -add-repository whatisitcalled
apt-get update
whatever install command is needed

where the "foo" line is the important one which may involve "vi" or some other editor and the exact line contents necessary...

please?

DoDi, what is the Ubuntu version? IIRC in 9.10 installed and worked for me with no major problem... (from Ubuntu's own repository)

That's 0.9.26 only, not what I need today. But I'll give it another try, to find out what a newbie will encounter.

I'll install a 9.10 VM image here and see if we can go through the issues :)

I've the same problem with my Ubuntu and Kubuntu VMWare machines: the applications use huge fonts, only the most standard items (menus...) come in the selected 8 pt. size. But it should be sufficient to figure out problems and solutions. Which virtualization software do you use? I have an old VMWare Workstation 4.0 for Linux (32 bit only), but couldn't install it yet on Ubuntu.

DoDi

It also should work for other systems. Some time ago I could install Lazarus from RPM's on openSuse, so why not on Ubuntu from DEB packages?

I've been using fpc and debian stable for several years now. I used to download the debs from the freepascal website because the debian stable repo didn't have them. Then fpc made it into debian stable and I used that for a while. Then I wanted an up-to-date version so I switched to the debian unstable repo just for free pascal, and I still use that.

Nowadays I use the hu.freepascal.org repo for lazarus, although I've been considering going svn on that one. Hasn't happened yet. You can add this line to /etc/apt/sources.list:

deb http://www.hu.freepascal.org/lazarus/ lazarus-stable universe

Unfortunately the hu.fpc repo doesn't have fpc 2.4 yet; only fpc 2.2.4 -- but if you're happy with 2.2.4 for now then go for it, this is probably your best solution. One time there was a bug in the declared package dependencies so I couldn't upgrade properly, but it got fixed after not too long.

I'm not sure what the state of ubuntu's repos are wrt fpc, but debian's unstable repo keeps up to date fairly well. It's usually not long after a new fpc version announcement that it becomes available on debian unstable. I would expect the ubuntu repo to keep fairly up to date as well but I don't really know what they do.

~David.

It worked almost foolproof for me (Kubuntu here):

0) open the wiki (to read the instructions)
1) open Computer|Software Management
2a) go to Settings (bottom entry), Edit Software Sources, Other Software 2b) Add, copy&paste the "deb ..." from the wiki
3a) go to Software Management(top entry), enter "lazarus", Search 3b) select "lazarus - 0.9.28.2-0 (all)"

(2) should be doable by a developer
(3b) is critical, the four entries look very similar

Therefore I proceeded after step 2 in a Terminal:
sudo apt-get install lazarus
with the somewhat unexpected effect that after installation the command is lazarus-ide
but the system menu now has the expected
Applications|Development|Lazarus entry.

Nonetheless two problems remain:
- the help is installed, but into the wrong directory (/usr/share/...)
- fpc 2.2.4 is installed, too old when switching to SVN trunk later

I hope that the Help issue is fixed soon. Research for SVN and fpc 2.4 goes on...

Using the GUI seems easier to me, but writing down the required steps is not so easy, in detail when nationalized menu entries are involved.

DoDi

I thought it was .28... sorry.
But yes, I think the first situation we need to focus is the "newbies" one. (And I always thought it "newbee". Firefox corrected me :-$ ) i set up a clean Ubuntu VM for testing purposes; I may set up other distros...

VirtualBox, of course! ;-)
As I said, never seem the problems you mention. Did you try decreasing the Fonts' DPI?

Best regards,
Fl?vio

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

As it looks to me now, I do not only see Lazarus in a downward spiral, instead the spiral already has reached ground zero :-(

Strange, while reading this, I thought the same, but then about Ubuntu. Since what else is a distribution then packaging and integrating the separate raw packages?

Debian packages for fpc 2.4.0 exist.

I had to create a repository on my local drive and added it to Synaptic's software sources. It wasn't very easy. I learned later on that you could use the command dpkg -i *.deb to install packages from the current directory; haven't tried it though.

The problems reside in the way, how the packages are constructed and fit into the package management of the platform. The major problems were finding the appropriate packages at all, and then to install the *many* related/dependent 've added my solution to the
"Getting Lazarus" (for Ubuntu) wiki page.

The Lazarus specific problems with the currently available kits affect the help system, and mostly have been cured in the trunk. There was
- an incompatible placement of the help docs,
- browser was not detected,
- StartPage does not use the user configured help path,
- incomplete docs after rebuild (missing topics)
- FPDoc Editor has problems with the Lazarus-Directory macro,
- and no help available unless all settings are correct.

Another problem: how can a user rebuild Lazarus, when it has been installed into /usr where the user has not enough rights.

Some of these topics have been or still are show stoppers, preventing an average user (even skilled developer) from testing Lazarus.

DoDi

I had to create a repository on my local drive and added it to Synaptic's software sources. It wasn't very easy.

That's one way to make the apt package management inoperative, if not done properly.

I learned later on that you could use the command dpkg -i *.deb to install packages from the current directory; haven't tried it though.

I've tried the *.deb solution, and found it working for me :-) See my notes in the "Getting Lazarus" wiki page.

DoDi

Probably all true, but why do you post this here, and not on the responsible bugsystem or maillist of Ubuntu?

Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote

Another problem: how can a user rebuild Lazarus, when it has been installed into /usr where the user has not enough rights.

if this has been done, then it indicates that root installed Laz/FPC... that means that root has to do the rebuild, not the user(s)...

if they need to be able to rebuild Laz/FPC, they need to install it into their home directory for the necessary rights to be active...

yes, i see what you are saying, though... the packages are configured to install to a central location for all to use and that means that they cannot to the rebuild... but they should not have to do any rebuild since the package should be stable... plus they are fully loaded with all the goodies and debug capabilities... this should them the ability to test and work with Laz/FPC...

/if/ they later reach a point where they need to be able to rebuild Laz/FPC or be able to compile for other platforms and such, _then_ they would install from the sources/SVN to their *home* directory and wade on into the really deep end of the pool... IIUC, they would only need to edit a couple of Laz/FPC specific files to change some directory entries to point at the new installation location in their home directory but that shouldn't be hard to do...

2010/3/18 patspiper :

The command (as root)

dpkg -i *.deb

works for me. In 2009 I have had to write this command three times in a clean Debian Lenny (maybe wrong packages dependencies order). A month ago the command worked in the first try in a clean Ubuntu 9.10 . Well, not exactly in the first try, I have had to install *-dev packages as pointed out by dpkg. But the dpkg's message was very clear.

Gustavo (excuse my english)

There are only Lazarus problems remaining.

DoDi

This is how Lazarus is installed by default (distributed packages). This may be okay for multi-user systems with a skilled administrator, but not necessarily for the average my current considerations are about users (like me) without an skilled system administrator.

if they need to be able to rebuild Laz/FPC, they need to install it into their home directory for the necessary rights to be active...

This requirement should be documented, including how to accomplish it. The documentation could be restricted to how to use the repository, when Lazarus ever has to be rebuilt after the first installation - if that's the simplest way.

Remember that installing packages requires to rebuild Lazarus, so that a private installation might be preferable as the default. While this is not complicated for itself, it should be nice and easy to perform the move from the original distribution to a private build.

It's not so hard for the second time, but for the first time it is. Perhaps I see too many problems, I'll have to check the actual procedures myself again.

DoDi

G'day Lazarus FANS,

The attached (small) .iso file *may* help! Although I don't recall whether twist [or not] I have Lazarus installed.

It's an .iso file created with my HP Laptop and a Ethernet cx to my desktop with an ethernet hub. I created it with my laptop and DVD-RW drive!!! GRIN

Oppss!!! Google mail and me lost my changes!!!!

Hope you like it!

LUV Pew
X

The attached (small) .iso file *may* help! Although I don't recall whether twist [or not] I have Lazarus installed.

I only received an XML file with .iso extension.

You should not attach big files to your messages.

DoDi