Hi Everybody,

After enduring more sh*t than I can handle, the rude comments from core team in the public mailing list, the rude private emails from core team, the seriously bad attitude, the inability to handle criticism etc... I think it is time I call it a day and move one. It wasn't fun, and I have better things to do with my time than try and help a project that doesn't want help.

All the best with your Lazarus project. I sure hope you guys (core team) can get your act together and drop your god complex by the door. You guys might end up being the only people that use Lazarus!

Graeme signing out for good!

Why leaving, instead of forking?

thanks,
dmitry

Graeme,

I am following this discussion, and many others, without intervention, but I hope, your are not serious about getting away from freepascal and lazarus.
I am personally with you in most of your personal choices. I think, as you (I hope) that completing (mostly) the LCL-FPGUI interfase will give to lazarus (the IDE and the component set, and then the developed applications) the stability and flexibility that you, and I want.
I my self tried more than once to help in this interface, but I don?t have the skills to do it :-[ .
I know you helped or are helping in other areas that will help freepascal and lazarus to be a much better product (eg: duby, your help system based on INF, your installation generator, etc)

You really like to promotion the products you like (eg git... but there are more), but personally I like the way you acted creating a git repository to fullfill your needs (and probably others that like it)... But it seems you are trying to convince others (including core) that the way you like things is the way to go... but in this open source project, there is place for everybody.
I think that you should not try to convince anyone about anything. Just write what you want as part of a brainstorm.

As I, there must be a lot of people trying freepascal and lazarus, waiting the point where it has all them need to move in, and it will be a shame that someone like you, that clearly want the best for the project, and contributed a lot (on your way), moves out.

So, I really expect you to stay around.

Horacio

PD:
To the core: some times you are very closed, and may be, sometimes, you should hear a little more at least to the people that is with no doubt committed with the project.
I don?t expect you to do anything more than what you are already doing, and your are doing grait (freepascal and lazarus are grait), only be a little more diplomatic in your answers.

El 09/03/2010 3:47, Graeme Geldenhuys escribi?:

Dear friend Graeme,

You greatly contributed to the project, and should arouse much envy these guys.

Please stay here.

Take care of the weakest: http://bit.ly/cY6d7W (peace and love :) )

Please apologise the team members for their rude answers. Not everybody are so skilful debaters as you. We are all just people with our problems and emotions and sometimes your ideas raise very strong emotions (like git vs svn :).

For the future I suggest to move this kind of discussion from the mail list to irc channel.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

Hello Graeme and others!

I also got feedback that one of my mails was offending. It was not meant to be offending and I didn't realize it then.
I understand however the core team's reactions. They get criticized heavily and provocatively, kind of ignoring their hard work and achievements. The demands are contradictory like "stable version" versus "easy patch commits".
I guess many projects try to balance between those demands, not only Lazarus.

When the discussion heats up then people become defensive and get offended more easily and the real message gets lost then.

I know I like to express things in a provocative way sometimes (I don't know exactly why) and so does Graeme apparently.
It is only natural to get a provocated responce for a provocative comment. It is kind of the nature of provocative comments. :-)

Fixes branch got improved (I understood), new access right are given... I think this project has grown so popular that these kind of clashes are inevitable.

I wanted to learn about open source project work flows. I am learning, yes! The social and communication part plays a big role.

Regards,
Juha Manninen
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IMO all of us are need for the project. In the frictions we rise, so stay with us, you will find your space
Salvatore

2010/3/9 Graeme Geldenhuys

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Dear Graeme,

Although I disagree with you on the "downwards spiral" discussion, I think it's a pitty you give up on Lazarus and, more importantly, on us, the rest of the community.

It is the nature of this medium which makes that passionate discussions tend to derail when emotions run high, and people get or feel offended (where this is most of the time not intended). Furthermore many of us are not native English speakers, so chances for mis-interpretations grow as nuances very easily get lost in translation.

Hope to see you back here.

Bart

I took the same decision as Graeme after Delphi 7 was dead, then tried C++... nah, tried C#... nah, tried Actionscript... well, this one gave me some money, but nah, it's horrible to work with it and see what non-programmers do with it; so I returned years later and decided to continue my projects with Lazarus, after all a Pascal programmer is a Pascal programmer. Examining Lazarus, and feeling the frustration caused by the instability everyone complains about, I decided the only way Lazarus could work for me was avoiding the black sheep of the family: the LCL. It didn't take me much time to build a GUI from scratch. Now I just use the LCL for the most basic tasks, as window creation, and still can use stable third party components. I have tested on XP, Vista, Snow Leopard and Ubuntu, and everything works as I dreamed, I no-longer get weird exceptions, and enjoy programming with the commodities Lazarus provides.

Best wishes Graeme!
-Marco