Hi all,

One more thing, but this is optional, we should give the decision to the one who are gonna do the real work: what tool are we going to use to serve the backend? PHP? Wordpress? Joomla? fpWeb?

Honestly, I expect it would be build using fpWeb. Because we could prove by itself that FPC/Lazarus is able provide all-in-one cross platform development tool, including web development. What do you think?

At the very least, this point has my vote :-)

Michael.

At the very least, this point has my vote :-)

I'll contribute my yunior designer work on this effort. I'll confirm this by Monday. I'll personally supervise his work. He's able to produce the HTML, CSS, and required JS for the design. So, it's only the front-end part. Would you do the back-end part, Michael? ;)

I think that we should not reinvent the wheel again and use already existing tools. Before we thought about the portal and choosed drupal as a possible cms for it. Although Joomla is a good candidate too.

If you want fpWeb very much you can start portal development in paralel. We can have fpWeb solution using drupal database. When it is ready we will switch to it without the need of database converting, etc.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

Well, I'm working on the technology full-time now, so if it is usable: great :-)

Michael.

I think that we should not reinvent the wheel again and use already existing tools. Before we thought about the portal and choosed drupal as a possible cms for it. Although Joomla is a good candidate too.

Good reason, for practical reason. If we're going to use external tool, as we don't need to reinvent the wheel so to say, I personally prefer WordPress engine. It less complex and easier to use and to maintain. But, that's me. :)

If you want fpWeb very much you can start portal development in paralel. We can have fpWeb solution using drupal database. When it is ready we will switch to it without the need of database converting, etc.

For development reason, I still prefer fpWeb. Yes, we would reinvent the wheel, if we say in CMS world as there are many ready-to-use CMS out there, though mostly build using PHP (and mysql). But, in pascal world, it maybe the first CMS that's build using pascal. Besides, it could be a best example and showcase for FPC/Lazarus. And for the database, personally, I much prefer Firebird, for many reasons. But, again, that's me.

As I remember some cms supports FireBird too.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

Bee Jay wrote

and showcase for FPC/Lazarus. And for the database, personally, I much prefer Firebird, for many reasons. But, again, that's me.

+1 here. Firebird is so much better than MySQL. I really don't understand the hype around MySQL.

If it is to be for the FPC website too, then Firebird is a must. I'd like to get rid of the MySQL.

Michael.

I vote against any yet another complex to be hacked php site.

So if we do something then I either prefer to something fpweb or keep the current engine. (and I'm serious about that)

Marc

When talking databeses, I'd prefer Postgresql.

Marc

especially since Joomla is listed in the @RISK and BUGTRAQ lists an awful lot... drupal is there as well but not as high in the count... heck, e107 also got a hit the other day but it was fixed very quickly... i don't quite understand CMS systems but there they are...

So if we do something then I either prefer to something fpweb or keep the current engine. (and I'm serious about that)

i'd like to see it done with fpWeb, as well... especially as a learning tool ;)

Before use pascal (fbWeb or others), you must ask how many users will use it in the future (use the project in there site), because those user will improves the project by send bugs and patches.

SY, Zaher Dirkey
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Marc Weustink wrote

> If it is to be for the FPC website too, then Firebird is a must. When talking databases, I'd prefer Postgresql.

Postgresql eluded me for many years (I don't know why). I was pleasantly surprised when I took a look at Postgresql a few months ago. A very nice database system and with excellent tools and documentation.

Saying that, Postgresql is a bit more advanced than Firebird, in the sense of setup, maintenance etc. So people with limited time, I would still recommend Firebird. Firebird has the benefit of a "deploy and forget" style and hardly needs maintenance afterwards.

Firebird has less features than Postgresql but Postgresql has bad client (for me), I prefer FirebirdSQL.

2010/1/31 Zaher Dirkey :

Firebird has less features than Postgresql but Postgresql has bad client (for me), I prefer FirebirdSQL.

If you're going to use Drupal, then I think the options are MySQL or Postgres.

Personally I don't like MySQL; I think it's weaker than Postgres.

And the MySQL community, unlike the Postgres people, seem to take great delight in explaining to you what an idiot you are and how clever they are, while simultaneously not giving you the answer you might be seeking, frequently saying stupid things like "Google is your friend".

The Postgres list is generally helpful in contrast.

Why is it that Windows based technologies seem to have a preponderance of these charlatans? In view of the largely more technical nature of *nix based software, I would have expected the roles to be reversed and the latter to be the group less inclined to suffer fools gladly.

Still, perhaps that's just a personal view.

~ Dave

Marc Weustink wrote

When talking databeses, I'd prefer Postgresql.

+1

zeljko

2010/1/31 Zaher Dirkey

Postgresql admittedly has a steep initial learning curve, but once you have that behind you, it interfaces seamlessly with the sqldb components in Lazarus/FPC. I have been using Lazarus/FPC/Postgres for a commercial app and I have not had any hiccups with it. It does what it is told and does so reliably. What's more - it is a cross-platform RDBMS as well. Runs as sweetly on Linux et. al. as it does on Windows.

Marc Weustink wrote

I vote against any yet another complex to be hacked php site. So if we do something then I either prefer to something fpweb or keep the current engine. (and I'm serious about that)

What is fpWeb? Some pascal web framework. Framework is not a cms so to develop a good cms one should spend time and much time. Who will be able to use that new cms? I belive nobody except that cms developer. In other case much time needs to be measured in years. And do you believe it will be more secure than drupal and joomla? I belive not. If someone start today then we will see lazarus website using fpWeb after another 10 years.

Just find something what is using firebird if you prefere it and lightweight (less code - less parts to hack), create a website using that lightweight framework and create a second version of the website using fpWeb and the same database.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

Marc Weustink wrote

When talking databeses, I'd prefer Postgresql.

Postresql maybe a good database engine but Firebird is the better choise since it is related to Borland. Borland is related to pascal, pascal to fpc, and fpc to lazarus :)

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

Hmm, the fact that this thread already has a lot of messages but the "content" thread (which it is all about imho) has not recieved one answer makes me a bit sceptical about this project...

;-)

Each has his preferences, I won't try to convince anyone otherwise.

But on idefix - or www.freepascal.org, which is located at my work place - the matter is not subject to debate. It's firebird or nothing.

Note that the lazarus website is not on Idefix, and that this condition is only relevant if the FPC website is overhauled using the same tool - a matter which still is subject to debate :-)

Michael.

theo wrote

Hmm, the fact that this thread already has a lot of messages but the "content" thread (which it is all about imho) has not recieved one answer makes me a bit sceptical about this project... ;-)

Yes, it seems like people are just recommending the database they have had personal, successful experience with. Not a good way to make a choice.

I've looked at several CMS systems and a while ago decided Drupal way the better one. Mainly because of the community energy behind it. It has sustained momentum for several years and the community is largely friendly and helpful.

I've looked at several databases and a while ago decided that Firebird was the better one for this type of project. Mainly because of its emphasis on low administration requirements and small footprint. MySQL is a joke of a database, is not FOSS, and does not deserve any further growth in use.

So, I would double check if Drupal can run on top of Firebird and, if so, use that combination. If not, Drupal with Postgresql.

The idea of developing a CMS using FPC is wonderful. But the resources just are not there to get this done quickly, to stand on the shoulders of others and just get the job done.

The companies around me that makes the best websites, don't use CMS's anymore. And if they do they do not use on of the standard ones, but one of their own.

That's because a good website begins with the design. And all CMS-systems lay rules on how the design should look like. If you want to design for Joomla, Drupal or something similar, and you want to do it good, you have to know the tool really good. Or else you'll need local hacks or modifications from others, which are not as well supported as the main tool.

Nowadays I think the best option is a framework which supports you to create your own website. (And I do immediately agree that fpWeb isn't there yet by far)

I'm no designer. if someone can come up with a good design, (Bee or his collegue?) and a good navigational system, and a well-thought out 'consumer journey'/usability I can make a quick setup for the backend.

We can see what to do next from there. (Maybe that someone else want to implement a Drupal template?) We'll see.

Joost.

If you mean in FPC, count me in :)

Michael.

+1.

theo wrote

Hmm, the fact that this thread already has a lot of messages but the "content" thread (which it is all about imho) has not recieved one answer makes me a bit sceptical about this project... ;-)

maybe the problem is that the discussion is not subject line oriented but flows with a life of its own based on the discussion traffic? this is an old problem that has been around since usenet first got started and BBS' (yes the older traditional ones) were developed ;)

If I try to remember where all this started, it was the lack of a simple welcome page (with which I heartily agree).

If someone with a small degree of graphic design skills (by which I exclude myself) were to build a static html page with a short "This is lazarus" paragraph, and links to "this is the documentation", "this is the wiki", "this is the forum", "this is where you get it", "this is the 'hello world' program tutorial" (if there isn't one in the wiki, there soon could be), then this would cover most of the original concerns, at least during the year or so it looks like taking the full new web site to get off the ground.

cheers,
John Sunderland

If you mean in FPC, count me in :)

From the content structure that I proposed on the other thread, we need some applications to accompany the web site.

1. Wiki, it's already available. Maybe we should reconstructure the content so they could be better categorized.
2. Bug tracker, it's already available using Mantis. Maybe we should fix the appearance so its theme could fit the new design.
3. Source code browser, it's already available using SVN and ViewVC. Maybe we should also fix the appearance.
4. Contributed code repo, it's already available through Contributed Units on FPC site. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb.
5. Code bounty manager, it's not available, only a page on Wiki. I think we should build a new app for this for more accountable participants. This app could become a way to boost FPC and Lazarus development.
6. Online forum, it's already available using SMF. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb in the future.
7. Website CMS, it's not available. But we can use available CMS engine i.e. Wordpress, Drupal, or Joomla.

The 6 and 7 aren't high priority, they could be optional for now. But, ideally, to show off the power of FPC on web development, we should build one by ourselves.

I was planning to do so. I will also rewrite the testsuite tool.

5. Code bounty manager, it's not available, only a page on Wiki. I think we should build a new app for this for more accountable participants. This app could become a way to boost FPC and Lazarus development.

Sounds interesting :-)

6. Online forum, it's already available using SMF. I think we should build a new one for this using fpWeb in the future.

In the future: yes.

7. Website CMS, it's not available. But we can use available CMS engine i.e. Wordpress, Drupal, or Joomla.

My personal preference - pending an implementation in FPC ;) - is WordPress. My experience with the other two was not so positive.

If the websites are ever to be merged, the main site will be on www.freepascal.org, so please use Firebird instead of mysql.

Michael.

Great news. This is a hidden treasure, IMO. If we could provide a good app for this, I believe FPC/Lazarus will become more popular.

I've been thinking about this since the beginning of the reconstruction idea. We really need this app. Just like Contributed Code app, this could also makes FPC/Lazarus more popular.

> 6. Online forum, it's already available using SMF. I think we > should build a new one for this using fpWeb in the future. In the future: yes.

+1

+1

If the websites are ever to be merged, the main site will be on www.freepascal.org, so please use Firebird instead of mysql.

AFAIK, Wordpress is already able to work with Firebird.

One more thing:
8. Account integrator. Since we have many applications for the website i.e. wiki, forum, mantis, svn, etc. I think we should make one app to synchronized a single account across those apps. So, the user would only remember 1 account and use it for all the apps provided. But, this requires pretty much work (I had made one), we can leave it at the lowest priority.

The FPC forum, contributed units and Mantis are already integrated like this. This really is not so much work.

Michael.

Perhaps we use different approach and requirements. I once made an SSO apps which able to integrate user management across many apps, including third party apps. Not only user management, but also apps management, ACL, scheduling, network access, etc. all-in-one centralized engine. It's like cpanel to control accounts, apps, and network. Once the user logon in an app, then s/he goes to another app, the app will automatically recognize him/her and his/her previlege, no need to relogin on each apps. Maybe it's too much for our need.

Ooops, it's getting OOT. :D

Bee Jay wrote

5. Code bounty manager, it's not available, only a page on Wiki. I think we should build a new app for this for more accountable participants. This app could become a way to boost FPC and Lazarus development.

Maybe bounty field can be added to the bug-tracker. So if a reporter want to pay some money for the issue he/she can fill that field? Anyway, bounties does not differ from regular issues - just reporter want to pay to speedup the solution.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

Don't forget the 5000+ accounts of the current lazarus forum. There is currently no relation between them and Mantis for instance.

Marc

Paul Ishenin wrote

Maybe bounty field can be added to the bug-tracker. So if a reporter want to pay some money for the issue he/she can fill that field? Anyway, bounties does not differ from regular issues - just reporter want to pay to speedup the solution.

Good idea. But, IMO, it should be put upfront instead of hidden beneath the mantis system. It will ease people who want to donate to the development, not just for technical things, but for other non technical things as well e.g. creating a tutorial, writing an article, making a demo app, etc. Maybe we could make a small interface app for mantis only for this purpose. What do you think?

New mantis bounty project?

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

Another more thing:
9. Dynamic content aggregator. As my proposal of layout and content structure of the new web site, we need a little app that aggregates recent content from various sources i.e. forum post, svn commit, screenshot, etc. and randomly embeds some of them into a page.

Would someone help us here writing the required apps above? Please, for the better website of FPC and Lazarus. TIA.