Hi,

Two questions...

1. Why is the TNoteBook component used for editor pages instead of the TPageControl. I thought the TPageControl was preferred component in applications?

2. Why doesn't the TNoteBook component have a TabPosition property? I wanted to modify my Lazarus IDE so that the editor tabs are on the right side of the editor, but can't because the TabPosition property is missing.

Any reason why we can't switch to TPageControl instead? Possible issues with TPageControl
- I can't see a Options property to show the 'X' clone button
- I can't see a TabList popup menu option property.

What could be a solution so we can position the tabs in the editor. With wide screen monitors, it will be much more beneficial to have the tabs on the right edge compared to the default top. No scroll (or much less scrolling) of tabs will occur.

Regards,
- Graeme -

What does this have to do with wide screen monitors?

Vincent

Vincent Snijders wrote

What does this have to do with wide screen monitors?

Even if unit names are long, which would make the tabs long, with a wide screen you should still have screen space to resize your editor to your comfortable size.

Have long unit names, only a few tabs fit the size of the editor window, then you have to start scrolling - I hate that!

Regards,
- Graeme -

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

2. Why doesn't the TNoteBook component have a TabPosition property? I

Looking at the GTK documentation, it seems the GTK Notebook component does have a property to position it's tabs.

http://library.gnome.org/devel/gtk/unstable/GtkNotebook.html

void gtk_notebook_set_tab_pos(GtkNotebook *notebook,
                               GtkPositionType pos);

I'm pretty sure other GUI toolkits also have this. What is the difference between PageControl and Notebook control anyway. Isn't Notebook (in Delphi) still from the old Win 3.x components?

Regards,
- Graeme -

Do you claim, that with a normal screen, there is not enough space to put the tabs vertical (on the left) and then you have to scroll vertically?

Vincent

Vincent Snijders wrote

Do you claim, that with a normal screen, there is not enough space to put the tabs vertical (on the left) and then you have to scroll vertically?

I quickly hacked my IDE to show what I mean.

http://opensoft.homeip.net/~graemeg/laz_notebook_right.png

Here I have an LCD screen with standard 1440x900 resolution. I currently have 13 units open in the editor with space for about 3 more units before scrolling occurs. So that's 16 units open and no scrolling in the editor window. I also have some remaining desktop space to the right of the editor, which is cropped in the screenshot. So I can even resize the editor more if I wanted to.

Oh, and I have the Message Window Doc plugin installed, which allows me to dock my Messages window onto the Editor window, to save on a bit more space vertically.

Regards,
- Graeme -

With all tabs in one line, and the fact that the tabs/text is raotated by 90 degree, indeed it gets worse if tabs are on the side. But yes the take one less line on top, and you can see one more line of source code......

If you have multipline tabs, then on a widescreen you can stack as many as you want on the side.

Or maybe he was hoping that tabs on the side would not be rotated, but shown like items in a listbox.
(like "tree style tab" extension in firefox)

Maybe he should have a look at
http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=13930 that may help him.

Overall it seems there are a lot of people holding a great amount of iles open at the same time (sometimes me too).
Having them listbox style on the side could be of interes. especially if you could also group them in some way...

But then TNotebook.ShowTabs := false
and add an extension that displays the selection in an otherway.

Martin

That wouldn;t work for windows, because tabs are ratoted by 90 degree (verical text) if you put them on the side

If you right-click the tabs, you get a list of available tabs and you can switch to the tab you want by selecting it. What more do you need ? If I have 100 open files, no matter what the visual control, I will need to switch.

Michael.

Martin wrote

That wouldn;t work for windows, because tabs are ratoted by 90 degree (verical text) if you put them on the side

I did a Google search and found the following. So it must be possible - it probably just needs some extra settings.

"The application configuration in vs 2005 beta 2 uses horizontal text with tabs on the left, so some of the code is already there."

And here it is document on how to do it as well.
http://en.csharp-online.net/TabControl

And for delphi...

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/769285/how-can-i-change-the-orientation-of-the-label-on-a-tpagecontrol ...and here is a screenshot of a delphi app
http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/9533/56692119.jpg

So it is doable. ;-) Even if a custom component is used for the IDE only and not included in the component palette, that should also be ok. After all, I was told multiple times the IDE is for programmers, not users (apparently programmers are not users) - so anything should go.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Michael Van Canneyt wrote

If you right-click the tabs, you get a list of available tabs and you can switch to the tab you want by selecting it. What more do you need ?

Apparently that is only available to the lucky few that use the GTK2 widgetset. As far as I know, that open is not available in any other widgetset.

As for why I don't like the popup menu. I like to see things instantly and just straight to it. The popup is extra mouse clicks. ;-)

Either way, I solved the problem for myself. If anybody is interested in my hack, I can supply a patch. My hack will definitely not go into Lazarus repository, because I use the Tag property as a work-around so only the editor notebook is affected. :-)

Regards,
- Graeme -

Martin wrote

Maybe he should have a look at http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=13930 that may help him.

I already have that plugin and have used it for a while. That is probably the second best option available. And I really like the drag-to-reorder feature of that plugin!

If docking was supported in Lazarus IDE, I would continue using that again, and hide the editor tabs (new option in Environmont > Editor).

Regards,
- Graeme -

For the unfortunate ones, there is the windows menu.

As for why I don't like the popup menu. I like to see things instantly and just straight to it. The popup is extra mouse clicks. ;-)

Oh, I thought it was only one extra click.

Either way, I solved the problem for myself. If anybody is interested in my hack, I can supply a patch. My hack will definitely not go into Lazarus repository, because I use the Tag property as a work-around so only the editor notebook is affected. :-)

I would expect to be able to review it here:
http://github.com/graemeg/lazarus/tree/master

Vincent

Like I said: If you have sufficiently open files, you'll get to a point where you no longer can show them all.

Happens faster than you think. So your hack will work for another 15 files or so, and then you're again stuck.

Michael.

Michael Van Canneyt wrote

Like I said: If you have sufficiently open files, you'll get to a point where you no longer can show them all.

True. Luckily my personal usage I normally don't go over 15 open files.

Happens faster than you think. So your hack will work for another 15 files or so, and then you're again stuck.

I know! Ctrl+Click in the code can take you all over the place. :-)

I'm extending the "Opened Units List" add-on so that in can be docked to to the right of the editor, at which point, it hides the editor tabs. This add-on uses a listview, which takes up less space that tabs, so I should be able to fit another 10 open files in there.

http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=13930

PS:
Anybody know when will Lazarus IDE have docking support? I know of quite a few Lazarus add-ons that all do there own manual docking hacks. It would be so much easier with standard docking. I remember reading a while back that somebody was working on it - how far is the progress? Any way we can help?

Regards,
- Graeme -

Vincent Snijders wrote

Oh, I thought it was only one extra click.

As per a very unofficial study, the avg. programmer does 6000+ left clicks and 2500+ right clicks per day! So that will actually work out to be a lot more that one extra click per day. ;-)

I would expect to be able to review it here: http://github.com/graemeg/lazarus/tree/master

The hack is so ugly I don't know if I should put it there.. :-)

Regards,
- Graeme -

If docking was supported in Lazarus IDE, I would continue using that again, and hide the editor tabs (new option in Environmont > Editor).

I made an prototype for an multi-window docking editor (examples/dockmanager/easyedit). Every page can be detached by dragging its tab, so that any number of edit windows, with any number of files, can be created.

DoDi

When I can find the time, I'll try extending the package to place the file-list into the editor (like your editor toolbar) via TFrame. But not in the mean time. Work is chaotic this year due to the downturn.

Unless one of your clones beat me to it. ;-)

Regards,
Funky Beast

I thought it appropriate to place my response in the mailing list as well. I had no negative "flame bait" intentions with my comment. I feel other readers should also know this.

2009/8/18 Vincent Snijders:

What I mean is that if the Lazarus IDE uses a custom drawn Notebook component so that all platforms can have tabs on the side with horizontal captions, then it should be ok and allowed in the IDE. We (developers) are more technical minded - function over beauty, compared to normal (non-developer) users. That custom drawn component will only be used in the IDE, so will not be available in the component palette. It will not affect the cross-platform & native components requirement of the LCL. I hope I explained myself better this time round.

Other IDE's do similar thing - custom IDE-only components used in IDE's like Delphi, Eclipse etc.. If you use tools like MWSnap and the Window Information tool, you will see GUI classes in the Delphi IDE which are not available on the component palette.

Regards,
- Graeme -

_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

I often have more than 100 open files. If somebody is interrested how it is done in MSEide:
http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=165409&ssid=94936

MSEide has the editor tabs on the right. Double clicking on a tab moves it on the top of the list, drag and drop by mouse is also possible. The with of the tabs can be changed by mouse drag. Ctrl+E or the popup menu item 'Select Page' opens a window with alphabetically ordered editor filenames, the size of the window is variable and stored in project file: http://sourceforge.net/project/screenshots.php?group_id=165409&ssid=79656

I got no objections from the users up to now so this method seems to be accepted.

Martin

Like I showed when I first discovered the "tabs" in the windows menu:

http://www.dommelstein.nl/scrap/unit_menu.png

Marc