Sign in Join

Live chat for Free Pascal, Lazarus, Delphi and every Pascal programmer.

Mailing lists / lazarus / 2009-04

Why we chose Object Pascal instead

14 messages · 8 people · –

Reply by email Subscribe to this list Your subscription

Read-only archive. Use j and k to move between messages.

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
to Graeme Geldenhuys

And here is the best comment about it:

Capt. Kirk:
As a customer your choices are:

1. Hire an experienced competent developer who understands the library functions, knows how to write properly structured code with appropriate variable scope and data types, or

2. Hire someone who will produce what appears to be exactly the same output.

As a customer who doesn't happen to be a developer himself, the above two options translate as:

1. Hire an expensive expensive expensive who expensive the expensive expensive, knows how to write expensive expensive code with expensive expensive expensive and expensive expensive, or

2. Save a bunch of money and get exactly the same thing.

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
Giuliano Colla
to Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho ha scritto:

Show quoted text 21 lines
And here is the best comment about it: Capt. Kirk: As a customer your choices are: 1. Hire an experienced competent developer who understands the library functions, knows how to write properly structured code with appropriate variable scope and data types, or 2. Hire someone who will produce what appears to be exactly the same output. As a customer who doesn't happen to be a developer himself, the above two options translate as: 1. Hire an expensive expensive expensive who expensive the expensive expensive, knows how to write expensive expensive code with expensive expensive expensive and expensive expensive, or 2. Save a bunch of money and get exactly the same thing.

The funny thing is that whoever buys a car, a drill, a mobile phone, whatever, knows very well that what is visible doesn't tell what's inside, how reliable it is, and so on, and looks for expert advice. A lot of publishers make money printing magazines which provide a better insight on cars, cameras, phones etc. etc.
Nonetheless, although everybody stumbles every day in the pitfalls of badly written software, it appears that very few apply to buying software the same kind of approach. :-(

Giuliano

Giuliano Colla Whenever people agree with me, I always feel I must be wrong (O. Wilde)
Martin Friebe
to Giuliano Colla
Giuliano Colla wrote 34 lines
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho ha scritto: > And here is the best comment about it: > > Capt. Kirk: > As a customer your choices are: > > 1. Hire an experienced competent developer who understands the library > functions, knows how to write properly structured code with > appropriate variable scope and data types, or > > 2. Hire someone who will produce what appears to be exactly the same output. > > As a customer who doesn't happen to be a developer himself, the above > two options translate as: > > 1. Hire an expensive expensive expensive who expensive the expensive > expensive, knows how to write expensive expensive code with expensive > expensive expensive and expensive expensive, or > > 2. Save a bunch of money and get exactly the same thing. > > > The funny thing is that whoever buys a car, a drill, a mobile phone, whatever, knows very well that what is visible doesn't tell what's inside, how reliable it is, and so on, and looks for expert advice. A lot of publishers make money printing magazines which provide a better insight on cars, cameras, phones etc. etc. Nonetheless, although everybody stumbles every day in the pitfalls of badly written software, it appears that very few apply to buying software the same kind of approach. :-(

Yeah, but where is the magazine: "The programmer's inside" ? Which compares individual programmers, and gives tips, whom to use for which purpose?

scnr

Martin

Giuliano Colla
to Martin Friebe

Martin Friebe ha scritto:

Show quoted text 38 lines
Giuliano Colla wrote: > Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho ha scritto: > >> And here is the best comment about it: >> >> Capt. Kirk: >> As a customer your choices are: >> >> 1. Hire an experienced competent developer who understands the library >> functions, knows how to write properly structured code with >> appropriate variable scope and data types, or >> >> 2. Hire someone who will produce what appears to be exactly the same output. >> >> As a customer who doesn't happen to be a developer himself, the above >> two options translate as: >> >> 1. Hire an expensive expensive expensive who expensive the expensive >> expensive, knows how to write expensive expensive code with expensive >> expensive expensive and expensive expensive, or >> >> 2. Save a bunch of money and get exactly the same thing. >> >> >> > The funny thing is that whoever buys a car, a drill, a mobile phone, > whatever, knows very well that what is visible doesn't tell what's > inside, how reliable it is, and so on, and looks for expert advice. A > lot of publishers make money printing magazines which provide a better > insight on cars, cameras, phones etc. etc. > Nonetheless, although everybody stumbles every day in the pitfalls of > badly written software, it appears that very few apply to buying > software the same kind of approach. :-( > Yeah, but where is the magazine: "The programmer's inside" ? Which compares individual programmers, and gives tips, whom to use for which purpose?

It's a classical egg-and-chicken problem. No magazine because of no interest or no interest because of no magazine?

However, there's no "Programmer's inside" but also no "Program's inside". When you read reviews about Windows Vista, or IPhone or whatever, they only tell you what any user would see. Not even a minimal effort to guess what's inside, and how well it's done. They check if a car leaks water when it rains, they don't check if a sequence of perfectly legal keystrokes or mouse movements can freeze Microsoft Office (it does).

Giuliano

Giuliano Colla Whenever people agree with me, I always feel I must be wrong (O. Wilde)
Graeme Geldenhuys
to Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho: And here is the best comment about it: Capt. Kirk: As a customer your choices are: 1.…
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote
And here is the best comment about it:

I can't agree more... We have had this exact same issue in our company (before I arrived). They hired cheap (inexperienced) developers that caused havoc in the code. They make the GUI seem fine for a while, but underneath the design (if there actually was a design) is totally rubbish and unable to cope with new requirements. Hence the reason I was commissioned to do a total rewrite.

Regards,
- Graeme -

_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

Graeme Geldenhuys
to Martin Friebe: Yeah, but where is the magazine: "The programmer's inside" ? Which compares individual…
Martin Friebe wrote
Yeah, but where is the magazine: "The programmer's inside" ? Which compares individual programmers, and gives tips, whom to use for which purpose?

You don't need a magazine for that. You simply need the right person to do the interview and give the candidates a skills test, relevant to the job, to do. This immediately gets rid of most rubbish candidates.

Regards,
- Graeme -

_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

Hans-Peter Diettrich
to Graeme Geldenhuys: I can't agree more... We have had this exact same issue in our company (before I…
Show quoted text 6 lines
I can't agree more... We have had this exact same issue in our company (before I arrived). They hired cheap (inexperienced) developers that caused havoc in the code. They make the GUI seem fine for a while, but underneath the design (if there actually was a design) is totally rubbish and unable to cope with new requirements. Hence the reason I was commissioned to do a total rewrite.

That's why neither Cobol nor VB will ever die: they make secure long-term jobs

DoDi

waldo kitty
to Hans-Peter Diettrich: That's why neither Cobol nor VB will ever die: they make secure long-term jobs DoDi
Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote 11 lines
Graeme Geldenhuys schrieb: > I can't agree more... We have had this exact same issue in our company > (before I arrived). They hired cheap (inexperienced) developers that > caused havoc in the code. They make the GUI seem fine for a while, but > underneath the design (if there actually was a design) is totally > rubbish and unable to cope with new requirements. Hence the reason I > was commissioned to do a total rewrite. That's why neither Cobol nor VB will ever die: they make secure long-term jobs

that's also why "real coders" do not comment their source code ;)

NOTE: NEW EMAIL ADDRESS!! _\/ (@@) Waldo Kitty, Waldo's Place USA __ooO_( )_Ooo_____________________ telnet://bbs.wpusa.dynip.com _|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____ http://www.wpusa.dynip.com ____|_____|_____|_____|_____|_____|____ ftp://ftp.wpusa.dynip.com _|_Eat_SPAM_to_email_me!_YUM!__|_____ wkitty42 -at- windstream.net
Giuliano Colla
to waldo kitty

waldo kitty ha scritto:

Show quoted text 14 lines
Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > Graeme Geldenhuys schrieb: > >> I can't agree more... We have had this exact same issue in our company >> (before I arrived). They hired cheap (inexperienced) developers that >> caused havoc in the code. They make the GUI seem fine for a while, but >> underneath the design (if there actually was a design) is totally >> rubbish and unable to cope with new requirements. Hence the reason I >> was commissioned to do a total rewrite. > That's why neither Cobol nor VB will ever die: they make secure > long-term jobs that's also why "real coders" do not comment their source code ;)

We had a guy who'd found an even more clever way. He did comment the code, but his comments reported what the code didn't do, instead of what the code was doing. Sort of an embedded and disguised TODO list, which could easily lead to believe that a feature was implemented, when actually it wasn't!

Giuliano Colla Whenever people agree with me, I always feel I must be wrong (O. Wilde)
Coppola Ing. Salvatore
to Giuliano Colla
Giuliano Colla wrote 29 lines
waldo kitty ha scritto: > Hans-Peter Diettrich wrote: > >> Graeme Geldenhuys schrieb: >> >> >>> I can't agree more... We have had this exact same issue in our company >>> (before I arrived). They hired cheap (inexperienced) developers that >>> caused havoc in the code. They make the GUI seem fine for a while, but >>> underneath the design (if there actually was a design) is totally >>> rubbish and unable to cope with new requirements. Hence the reason I >>> was commissioned to do a total rewrite. >>> >> That's why neither Cobol nor VB will ever die: they make secure >> long-term jobs >> > that's also why "real coders" do not comment their source code ;) > > We had a guy who'd found an even more clever way. He did comment the code, but his comments reported what the code didn't do, instead of what the code was doing. Sort of an embedded and disguised TODO list, which could easily lead to believe that a feature was implemented, when actually it wasn't!

he, he.. !! very funny (ho riso di cuore!) :-D