Hello Michael (and
Vincent)

I use and disclose what the Lazarus in Brazil, but I am somewhat disappointed with the project. Many developers ask me which version is suitable for use, one that has stability, so I indicated to 0.9.26. Until then everything was quiet, I was using a copy snapshot 0.9.27, need to start a package of components, I could not edit either version of the package, since the copy 0.9.27 does not show the options of the package.

Decided to install 0.9.26 on Linux, when the program started almost fell of the chair, remember Windows 95, and the project has been a strange appearance, lacking basic resources, such as inserting an icon in the project.
I
see you talk about 0.9.26.1, 0.9.26.2, 0.9.27, 0.9.28, that leaves you frightened and full of questions, carried a great indecision about which version you are improving, and is also the question: ".. . The Lazarus is a solution or an option? "If it is designed to serve the public Linux (leaving Windows as an option), then it is a solution! Now it is for Windows, is a mere option, as there are products Borland compiling for Windows, or the Delphi7 is free, but the piracy is here to serve users without money (students, small businesses and etc.). My opinion:
Get what works in 0.9.26, 0.9.27 to apply, leave what works for 0.9.27 already and put a copy of 0.9.27 stable, then you may get questions about Navigating in other versions, but Meanwhile, we let developers create our projects because it is only reporting errors, an IDE will not bring money for basic things like food.

Well, you can do a search on me, which told of the positive Lazarus, who could convince people to leave the Delphi7 and using a tool still in testing (0.9.27), among other things how to create a blog and get posting Delphi in lists on Lazarus, I was moderating on this, and always put a [OFF-TOPIC] when I speak of Lazarus. If you can not leave a copy 0.9.27 stable, and is to be seeing you navigate a sea of doubt in stable release a copy without the archaic 0.9.26, wash my hands with Lazarus!
Makes clear that he is just an IDE, the FPC is who does the heavy lifting, and the staff of the FPC is guaranteed for the versions that they distribute.

I tried to send a copy of this e-mail to Felipe Monteiro (just speaking in English, is a Brazilian), but did not find his e-mail anywhere, even in www.planetadelphi.com.br!

PS: I used Google translator, excuse me if the email has an error. Original:

Ol? Michael (e
Vicent),

Eu uso e divulgo
bastante o Lazarus aqui no Brasil, mas, estou um tanto decepcionado com o projeto. V?rios programadores me perguntam qual vers?o ? a indicada para uso, uma que tenha estabilidade, ent?o eu indicava a 0.9.26. At? a? estava tudo tranq?ilo, eu estava usando uma c?pia snapshot 0.9.27, precisei iniciar um pacote de componentes, eu n?o consegui editar nem a vers?o do pacote, j? que a c?pia 0.9.27 n?o mostra as op??es do pacote.

Decidi instalar a
0.9.26 no Linux, quando iniciei o programa quase ca? da cadeira, lembrei do Windows 95, al?m do projeto estar com uma apar?ncia estranha, faltam recursos b?sicos, como por exemplo inserir um ?cone no projeto.
Vejo voc?s falarem
sobre 0.9.26.1, 0.9.26.2, 0.9.27, 0.9.28, isso deixa o usu?rio assustado e cheio de d?vidas, transparece uma grande indecis?o sobre qual vers?o voc?s est?o melhorando, e tamb?m fica a d?vida: "... O Lazarus ? uma solu??o ou uma op??o?"; Se ele for desenvolvido para atender o p?blico Linux (deixando Windows como op??o), ent?o ele ? um solu??o! Agora se for para Windows, ? uma mera op??o, j? que os produtos Borland est?o a? compilando para Windows, nem o Delphi7 ? gr?tis, mas, a pirataria est? a? para atender os usu?rios sem dinheiro (estudantes, empresas de pequeno porte e etc.).
Minha opini?o: Peguem
o que funciona da 0.9.26, apliquem na 0.9.27, deixem o que j? funciona da 0.9.27 e lancem uma c?pia est?vel da 0.9.27, da? voc?s podem ficar navegando em d?vidas sobre outras vers?es, mas, enquanto isso, n?s desenvolvedores vamos criando nossos projetos, porque ficar s? reportando erros de uma IDE n?o vai trazer dinheiro para coisas b?sicas como alimenta??o.

Bom, pode fazer uma
pesquisa sobre mim, o que j? falei de positivo do Lazarus, as pessoas que consegui convencer a sair do Delphi7 e usar uma ferramenta ainda em testes (0.9.27), dentre outras coisas como criar um Blog e ficar postando em listas Delphi sobre o Lazarus, j? fui moderando em rela??o a isso, e sempre coloco um [OFF-TOPIC] quando vou falar de Lazarus. Se n?o for poss?vel sair uma c?pia 0.9.27 est?vel, e se for para ficar vendo voc?s navegarem num mar de d?vidas em liberar uma c?pia est?vel sem ser a arcaica 0.9.26, lavo minhas m?os com o Lazarus!

Deixo bem claro que ele
? somente uma IDE, o FPC ? quem faz o trabalho pesado, e o pessoal do FPC se garantem em rela??o as vers?es que eles distribuem.

Tentei enviar uma c?pia deste e-mail para o Felipe Monteiro (mesmo s? falando em ingl?s, ? um brasileiro), mas, n?o encontrei o e-mail dele em lugar algum, nem mesmo no www.planetadelphi.com.br!

P.S.: Usei o
tradutor Google, desculpe-me se no e-mail tiver algum erro. ________________________________
[]'s, Silvio Cl?cio
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Ola Silvio,

I'm not Michael or Vincent, however, if I understand you properly (my Portuguese is very basic) in the translation, Delphi also had (I don't know if they still do) sub versions such as Delphi 7 SP1 and SP2 for fixing things. That's what Lazarus does just the same, how ever instead of calling it Service Pack, they merely add suffix of a sub version for it.

Just to remind you, please take Delphi 2 and Delphi 3, they are very different. In lazarus you see the difference appearing by each sub version, but you can monitor it happen.

The goal of the Lazarus project is to arrive to version 1.0 after so many years in development they even go further and try to make a more "open source" approach of "release often", that until 0.9.26 was not existed.

Lazarus 0.9.26 is very stable, if you compare it to 0.9.24, however it is still in development. If they will have more contributers you will also find more features and more components and even the ability to change approach of how things works.

With a commercial product you can find and expect specific way of doing things, with open source product, you can not expect things. Lazarus is not ready in my opinion for replacing Delphi, it still has a long way to go, however it is getting there.

That's All I have you say in this matter

Adius,
Ido

2009/2/16 Silvio Cl?cio :

2009/2/16 Vincent Snijders :

I have a feeling something got lost in the translation from Portuguese to English or from English to Dutch in the next paragraph, because I don't understand your point.

Basically he said he was very disappointed by the Linux Lazarus 0.9.26

He probably installed the Gtk 1. Yes, gtk 1 does look like crap. But it's very near it's grave now.

Gtk 2 is already the standard, so 0.9.28 should have a much better default look.

And the possibility of using Lazarus in Linux with LGPL-Qt 4.5 will give a huge jump in quality.

Well,

To old-time linux/unix users such as myself, it does not "look like crap". GTK 1 was revolutionary in its days. The GTK1 target is maybe not the most flashy one by current standards, but it does its job, requires WAY less resources than GTK 2 and is a hell of a lot faster.

For this reason I still use it daily.

Gtk 2 is already the standard, so 0.9.28 should have a much better default look. And the possibility of using Lazarus in Linux with LGPL-Qt 4.5 will give a huge jump in quality.

Why is that ? Is Qt so much better than GTK ?

Michael.

+1
As a side note: I have the BlueCurve theme installed which helps improve the look a bit. The second point is that I use a bitmap font (Raize) which is not usable under Lazarus-GTK2.

Regards,
- Graeme -

_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote

And the possibility of using Lazarus in Linux with LGPL-Qt 4.5 will give a huge jump in quality.

Why "jump in quality"? Isn't the current LCL-Qt based on Qt 4.x The Qt 4.5 release will only make it more usable in a open-source / closed-source (licensing) term - that has nothing to do with quality.

Regards,
- Graeme -

_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

Why is that ? Is Qt so much better than GTK ?

In this part I was not talking about appearance, but as to quality (amount of bugs) and easiness to developed. So, from the programmers side, yes Qt is much better then Gtk. Comparing Qt to Gtk (from the developer perspective) is like comparing a horse car with pieces falling to a mustang.

It probably sounds exagerated, but it's really not, because I have developed large parts of the Qt interface and also have gone many, many hours trying to improve the Gtk interface (althougth I acomplished very little in the Gtk part).

When developing the Qt interface, things get done in minutes. Some 2 minutes to implement windows shaped by region in Qt. In Gtk? I don't even want to try it!!! It will sure go over hours, hit dozens of bugs, etc, etc

Anyway, that was my personal experience.

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

Why "jump in quality"? Isn't the current LCL-Qt based on Qt 4.x The Qt 4.5 release will only make it more usable in a open-source / closed-source (licensing) term - that has nothing to do with quality.

I meant that today you cannot use it for closed-source projects, so for many people it simply does not exist as an option.

When it comes as an option, comes the fact that the qt interface has a high quality IMHO, so people who could only use gtk1 or gtk2 can suddenly use the qt interface, which has a high quality.

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote

I meant that today you cannot use it for closed-source projects, so for many people it simply does not exist as an option.

yes, that's true.

When it comes as an option, comes the fact that the qt interface has a high quality IMHO,....

I have not used Qt myself, but have studied the API and features. Qt seems like a very impressive framework. Being able to use it in a more liberal environment with Lazarus is a good thing.

Regards,
- Graeme -

_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

What are you comparing? LCL interfaces to qt and gtk or qt and gtk themself?

I suppose the first.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

Paul Ishenin wrote

What are you comparing? LCL interfaces to qt and gtk or qt and gtk themself? I suppose the first.

I am comparing qt and gtk themselves. The example goes around lazarus, but only because the only qt or gtk software that I develop is the LCL.