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Hans-Peter Diettrich

Now I could make Lazarus run, from the SVN. Here some notes:

1. We already know that a single configuration location is bad. Subdirectories for specific versions were nice.

1.1 Automatic correction for all absolute pathes were nice. I'm missing an menu entry for "adjust all pathes to (this) Lazarus root directory", for an automatic update of all related configuration files. The (template?) files could contain placeholders for the FPC and Lazarus root directories, wherever updates are required, for safe and easy replacement.

2. Help Configuration
[I've updated and put some rants into the Wiki]

2.1 The help (at least for the browser setup) should occur in hints, because online help relies on a valid browser link.

2.2 On Windows, the default browser can be used by simply opening the files, and let the file type system determine the according application.

"BrowserPath" and a distinct "Name" property are confusing. I tried to split the browser location into path and filename, what obviously didn't work :-(

2.3 When the distributed archive contains subdirectories, it should be sufficient to set up the html path once, with automatic expansion for the subdirectory pathes. (extra "All Defaults" button?)

2.4 What's the suggested StartPage? I couldn't find a global index.html page in the distributed archive.

DoDi

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Hans-Peter Diettrich
to Mattias Gärtner
> 2.1 The help (at least for the browser setup) should occur in hints, > because online help relies on a valid browser link. Do you mean: The parameters in the configure help should show hints?

The fields in the configure dialog should have hints.

Show quoted text 5 lines
> 2.3 When the distributed archive contains subdirectories, it should be > sufficient to set up the html path once, with automatic expansion for > the subdirectory pathes. (extra "All Defaults" button?) What distributed archive do you mean?

The (offline) help archive. The Wiki addressed the old directory structure.

Show quoted text 6 lines
> 2.4 What's the suggested StartPage? I couldn't find a global index.html > page in the distributed archive. I don't know about the 'distributed archive', but the default is $(lazarussrcdir)/docs/index.html

That's the start page for online help, not the best place for offline use.

DoDi

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Hans-Peter Diettrich
to Hans-Peter Diettrich: Now I could make Lazarus run, from the SVN. Here some notes: 1. We already know that a…

More topics:

The form designer windows should be closed on start of the program - but I couldn't find an according option.

Docking should be handled properly in design state (Windows). It's unclear whether it should be possible to dock forms at design time, or whether it should be seems to me that at design time only the default dock manager can be used, so that docking at design time doesn't make much sense?

What about the LazDoc programs? They don't compile at least since 0.9.26 :-( When I use the built-in FPDoc, how to publish the results? What about integrating lazde, at least a bigger GUI? It's a pain to tab between abstract, inherited and detailed descriptions in FPDoc, in order to find out about missing documentation for an topic. I'm also missing means to create and link kind of overviews.

DoDi

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Hans-Peter Diettrich
to Mattias Gärtner
Show quoted text 9 lines
> More topics: > > The form designer windows should be closed on start of the program - but > I couldn't find an according option. Do you mean: Environment / Options / Environment / Form Editor / Auto create forms when opening a unit ?

No. When a GUI program is started in the IDE, the designed forms stay on the desktop and are overlaid when the windows are created by the application. Moving the runtime form reveals the designtime form, what's very confusing.

Show quoted text 7 lines
> Docking should be handled properly in design state (Windows). It's > unclear whether it should be possible to dock forms at design time, or > whether it should be seems to me that at design time > only the default dock manager can be used, so that docking at design > time doesn't make much sense? No docking at design time.

Then it should be properly disabled. As a workaround I leave the designed mode as dmManual, and turn it into dmAutomatic in FormCreate - but that's not a solution to the problem.

> What about the LazDoc programs? They don't compile at least since 0.9.26 :-( What lazdoc program does not compile?

Neither FPDoc nor lazde. Others untested...

> When I use the built-in FPDoc, how to publish the results? Do you mean, you want to see the fpdoc content without the IDE, for example as html or chm files?

I want others to see my updates, too.

Show quoted text 5 lines
> What about integrating lazde, at least a bigger GUI? The main purpose of the fpdoc editor in the IDE is for lazy programmers so that they at least write a short sentence for each element. It is not meant as a real help editor. That's the purpose of lazde.

Then please make it compile, or provide at least a working binary.

Show quoted text 5 lines
> It's a pain to tab > between abstract, inherited and detailed descriptions in FPDoc, in order > to find out about missing documentation for an topic. Yes, buttons to jump to next/prev undocumented elements are not yet implemented.

That's a minor feature, which I have just implemented in PasDoc. I can add such things to fpdoc/lazde, as soon as these compile.

What I want is an instant overview of the amount of documentation for an identifier. I'm willing to improve the documentation (so that I get an overview myself ;-), but herefore I need somewhat comfortable tools.

Feel free to create a feature request in the bug tracker.

Done.

> I'm also missing means to create and link kind of overviews. That one too. They are called 'topics' in fpdoc.

Ah, thanks :-)

DoDi

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svaa
to Hans-Peter Diettrich

Hello:

I have 0.9.26 on Ubuntu 7.10. I am writing a GUI program, since debugger has problems to check the values of variables, I want to output debug data with "writeln" but I can't get a terminal with if it is not console application.

How can I get a to have the GUI program running and a terminal window also?

Regards
Santiago A.

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Mattias Gärtner
to Hans-Peter Diettrich: No. When a GUI program is started in the IDE, the designed forms stay on the desktop and…

Zitat von Hans-Peter Diettrich :

Show quoted text 16 lines
Mattias G?rtner schrieb: >> More topics: >> >> The form designer windows should be closed on start of the program - but >> I couldn't find an according option. > > Do you mean: > Environment / Options / Environment / Form Editor / Auto create forms when > opening a unit > ? No. When a GUI program is started in the IDE, the designed forms stay on the desktop and are overlaid when the windows are created by the application. Moving the runtime form reveals the designtime form, what's very confusing.

I see.
At the moment there are only two choices: nothing, and hide all IDE windows. You want to hide only the designer forms. Probably the OI and the anchor editor should be hidden in that case too.
Either the checkbox should be replaced with a radiogroup or with a checkgroup.

What do others think?

Show quoted text 11 lines
>> Docking should be handled properly in design state (Windows). It's >> unclear whether it should be possible to dock forms at design time, or >> whether it should be seems to me that at design time >> only the default dock manager can be used, so that docking at design >> time doesn't make much sense? > > No docking at design time. Then it should be properly disabled. As a workaround I leave the designed mode as dmManual, and turn it into dmAutomatic in FormCreate - but that's not a solution to the problem.

Docking should *not* work for components with csDesignTime - that means the LCL should prohibit it.
Can you give some more details how to reproduce this bug?

Show quoted text 6 lines
>> What about the LazDoc programs? They don't compile at least since 0.9.26 :-( > > What lazdoc program does not compile? Neither FPDoc nor lazde. Others untested...

fpdoc is the command line utility of FPC. Maybe you mean fpdocupdater?

Show quoted text 6 lines
>> When I use the built-in FPDoc, how to publish the results? > > Do you mean, you want to see the fpdoc content without the IDE, for example > as html or chm files? I want others to see my updates, too.

I'm not sure what you mean. If you share the sources with others then they have the fpdoc xml files too and so they can see your changes.

Show quoted text 8 lines
>> What about integrating lazde, at least a bigger GUI? > > The main purpose of the fpdoc editor in the IDE is for lazy programmers so that > they at least write a short sentence for each element. It is not meant as a > real help editor. That's the purpose of lazde. Then please make it compile, or provide at least a working binary.

Done in 17762.

Show quoted text 13 lines
>> It's a pain to tab >> between abstract, inherited and detailed descriptions in FPDoc, in order >> to find out about missing documentation for an topic. > > Yes, buttons to jump to next/prev undocumented elements are not yet implemented. That's a minor feature, which I have just implemented in PasDoc. I can add such things to fpdoc/lazde, as soon as these compile. What I want is an instant overview of the amount of documentation for an identifier. I'm willing to improve the documentation (so that I get an overview myself ;-), but herefore I need somewhat comfortable tools.

;)

Show quoted text 17 lines
> Feel free to create a feature request in the bug tracker. Done. >> I'm also missing means to create and link kind of overviews. > > That one too. They are called 'topics' in fpdoc. Ah, thanks :-) DoDi _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Tom Verhoeff
to svaa: Hello: I have 0.9.26 on Ubuntu 7.10. I am writing a GUI program, since debugger has…
svaa wrote 7 lines
I have 0.9.26 on Ubuntu 7.10. I am writing a GUI program, since debugger has problems to check the values of variables, I want to output debug data with "writeln" but I can't get a terminal with if it is not console application. How can I get a to have the GUI program running and a terminal window also?

In Project > Compiler Options > Linking: uncheck "Win32 gui application" (that Win32 is a legacy name). I believe that checkmark only suppresses the terminal window (but other should be able to shed more light on this).

Tom

E-MAIL: T.Verhoeff @ TUE.NL | Dept. of Math. & Comp. Science PHONE: +31 40 247 41 25 | Technische Universiteit Eindhoven FAX: +31 40 247 54 04 | PO Box 513, NL-5600 MB Eindhoven http://www.win.tue.nl/~wstomv/ | The Netherlands

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Coppola Ing. Salvatore
to svaa: Hello: I have 0.9.26 on Ubuntu 7.10. I am writing a GUI program, since debugger has…
svaa wrote 10 lines
Hello: I have 0.9.26 on Ubuntu 7.10. I am writing a GUI program, since debugger has problems to check the values of variables, I want to output debug data with "writeln" but I can't get a terminal with if it is not console application. How can I get a to have the GUI program running and a terminal window also?

Project --> Compiler Options --> Linking Tab --> uncheck win32 gui application

Show quoted text 9 lines
Regards Santiago A. _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Tom Verhoeff
to Mattias Gärtner
Mattias G?rtner wrote 11 lines
Zitat von Tom Verhoeff : > On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 04:08:36PM +0100, svaa wrote: > > > > How can I get a to have the GUI program running and a terminal window also? > > In Project > Compiler Options > Linking: uncheck "Win32 gui application" > (that Win32 is a legacy name). I believe that checkmark only > suppresses the terminal window (but other should be able to shed > more light on this). This option has no impact on linux - it is only for windows.

And for Mac OS, in my experience. (Hence, I find the option name misleading.)

My apologies for giving bad advice concering Linux.

Tom

E-MAIL: T.Verhoeff @ TUE.NL | Dept. of Math. & Comp. Science PHONE: +31 40 247 41 25 | Technische Universiteit Eindhoven FAX: +31 40 247 54 04 | PO Box 513, NL-5600 MB Eindhoven http://www.win.tue.nl/~wstomv/ | The Netherlands

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Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
to Tom Verhoeff
Tom Verhoeff wrote
And for Mac OS, in my experience. (Hence, I find the option name misleading.)

What does it do in Mac OS?

AFAIK you are wrong. This option sets a flag in the Windows executable to indicate that a standard I/O terminal should be created. It is something about the internal working of a windows executable and does nothing in other platforms.

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho

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Vincent Snijders
to Tom Verhoeff: And for Mac OS, in my experience. (Hence, I find the option name misleading.) My…
Tom Verhoeff wrote 12 lines
On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 05:02:38PM +0100, Mattias G?rtner wrote: > Zitat von Tom Verhoeff : >> On Tue, Dec 09, 2008 at 04:08:36PM +0100, svaa wrote: >>> How can I get a to have the GUI program running and a terminal window also? >> In Project > Compiler Options > Linking: uncheck "Win32 gui application" >> (that Win32 is a legacy name). I believe that checkmark only >> suppresses the terminal window (but other should be able to shed >> more light on this). > This option has no impact on linux - it is only for windows. And for Mac OS, in my experience. (Hence, I find the option name misleading.)

What effect does this option has on Mac OS?

Vincent

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Hans-Peter Diettrich
to Mattias Gärtner: Zitat von Hans-Peter Diettrich : I see. At the moment there are only two choices:…
Show quoted text 7 lines
> No. When a GUI program is started in the IDE, the designed forms stay on > the desktop and are overlaid when the windows are created by the > application. Moving the runtime form reveals the designtime form, what's > very confusing. I see. At the moment there are only two choices: nothing, and hide all IDE windows.

On reaching an breakpoint all the windows will be restored :-(

You want to hide only the designer forms. Probably the OI and the anchor editor should be hidden in that case too.

Right. The Delphi option is "Hide designer windows on run".

Either the checkbox should be replaced with a radiogroup or with a checkgroup.

Or an additional checkbox in the designer options tab?

The GUI can be changed easily, but the functionality should be implemented ASAP.

Show quoted text 7 lines
>> No docking at design time. > Then it should be properly disabled. As a workaround I leave the > designed mode as dmManual, and turn it into dmAutomatic in FormCreate - > but that's not a solution to the problem. Docking should *not* work for components with csDesignTime - that means the LCL should prohibit it.

Right. Unfortunately I could not yet find the places for these checks, mouse dependent actions are hard to debug. There reside more bugs in the dock manager(s), I'll try to make an dock manager with emulator capabilities, just for debugging.

Can you give some more details how to reproduce this bug?

You need two forms, a dockable one with DragMode=dmAutomatic (and some components on it), the other one [with a panel] with DockSite and UseDockManager = True. Then just selecting the dockable form with the mouse at design time, e.g. for setting properties, will start producing random frame rects wherever the mouse goes.

BTW, when I want to test my own dock manager, what exactly has to be done to install that manager? There seems to be one or more global variables that are used in the initialization of Controls.pp.

Please note that I want to have none of the existing dock managers by default, since I suspect some bugs just in their initialization. In my dock-test project I get an exception(?) almost all the time, when the program is started, with only an "Execution paused" and an hint "Some day an assembler window..." :-(

Show quoted text 7 lines
>>> When I use the built-in FPDoc, how to publish the results? >> Do you mean, you want to see the fpdoc content without the IDE, for example >> as html or chm files? > I want others to see my updates, too. I'm not sure what you mean. If you share the sources with others then they have the fpdoc xml files too and so they can see your changes.

Okay, I found out that I have to submit an patch. Which folder(s) should be diff'ed, in order to exclude changes not related to the documentation?

Show quoted text 5 lines
>> they at least write a short sentence for each element. It is not meant as a >> real help editor. That's the purpose of lazde. > Then please make it compile, or provide at least a working binary. Done in 17762.

You already fixed most of the bugs :-)

Only in lazde.lpr the line

   {$IFDEF WINDOWS}{$R manifest.rc}{$ENDIF}

causes an error "no resources...". (On Windows, of course ;-)

BTW, the same error message comes up when a new project is started before saving it. This situation could be checked in the IDE...

Thanks for your quick response :-)

DoDi

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Tom Verhoeff
to Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho: What does it do in Mac OS? AFAIK you are wrong. This option sets a flag in the Windows…
Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho wrote 9 lines
On Tue, Dec 9, 2008 at 7:07 PM, Tom Verhoeff wrote: > And for Mac OS, in my experience. (Hence, I find the option name misleading.) What does it do in Mac OS? AFAIK you are wrong. This option sets a flag in the Windows executable to indicate that a standard I/O terminal should be created. It is something about the internal working of a windows executable and does nothing in other platforms.

When unchecked, it used to open an xterm, in which output of write/writeln would appear. But this may have been in the GTK version using X11. When I try it now, it gives an error

Debugger: Exception while creating process: Executable not found: "xterm"

But I have a wrong path somewhere ... Maybe someone else can try as well.

Tom

E-MAIL: T.Verhoeff @ TUE.NL | Dept. of Math. & Comp. Science PHONE: +31 40 247 41 25 | Technische Universiteit Eindhoven FAX: +31 40 247 54 04 | PO Box 513, NL-5600 MB Eindhoven http://www.win.tue.nl/~wstomv/ | The Netherlands

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Chris Kirkpatrick
to svaa: Hello: I have 0.9.26 on Ubuntu 7.10. I am writing a GUI program, since debugger has…

What happens if you open the application by typing its name in a console window? The console window remains there during execution of the program, and receives some output, though this may not be the output you require.
Regards - Chris

svaa wrote 18 lines
Hello: I have 0.9.26 on Ubuntu 7.10. I am writing a GUI program, since debugger has problems to check the values of variables, I want to output debug data with "writeln" but I can't get a terminal with if it is not console application. How can I get a to have the GUI program running and a terminal window also? Regards Santiago A. _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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svaa
to Chris Kirkpatrick

Hello:

I've decide to use the this work around. I write to filetext and in a terminal I use "tail -f <file>". It lets me stop in a breakpoint from the IDE and watch in the terminal the current value with a writeln. It's not the best, but it works for what I need. May be later I will learn how to use the gdb from command line.

By the way, I thought gdb was unable to display Pascal variables, but if gdb is able to display the value of any variable in Pascal, what's the problem of Lazarus's IDE in displaying the value? It uses gdb as debugger backend. doesn't it?

Regards
Santiago Amposta

around

Show quoted text 26 lines
svaa wrote: > Hello: > > I have 0.9.26 on Ubuntu 7.10. I am writing a GUI program, since debugger > has problems to check the values of variables, I want to output debug > data with "writeln" but I can't get a terminal with if it is not > console application. > > How can I get a to have the GUI program running and a terminal window also? > > Regards > Santiago A. > > _______________________________________________ > Lazarus mailing list > > http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus > > > _______________________________________________ Lazarus mailing list http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/mailman/listinfo/lazarus

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Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho
to svaa

The IDE shows the values. Set a breakpoint and then move the mouse over the variable names in the code. It will show you their value at that point as a tooltip.

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho

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svaa
to Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho

Felipe Monteiro de Carvalho escribi?:

Show quoted text 5 lines
The IDE shows the values. Set a breakpoint and then move the mouse over the variable names in the code. It will show you their value at that point as a tooltip.

Not always. Bugs #12522 and #12111
At least in Linux.

Regards
Santiago A.

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Mattias Gaertner
to svaa: Hello: I've decide to use the this work around. I write to filetext and in a terminal I…
Show quoted text 12 lines
Hello: I've decide to use the this work around. I write to filetext and in a terminal I use "tail -f <file>". It lets me stop in a breakpoint from the IDE and watch in the terminal the current value with a writeln. It's not the best, but it works for what I need. May be later I will learn how to use the gdb from command line. By the way, I thought gdb was unable to display Pascal variables, but if gdb is able to display the value of any variable in Pascal, what's the problem of Lazarus's IDE in displaying the value? It uses gdb as debugger backend. doesn't it?

Yes. But not every variable has a simple mapping in the debugging info. MSEGui does some more tricks to fill some gaps.
The codetools can probably provide enough information to map. Marc can probably give more details.

Mattias

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Marc Weustink
to Mattias Gaertner
Mattias Gaertner wrote 20 lines
On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 09:39:38 +0100 svaa wrote: > Hello: > > I've decide to use the this work around. I write to filetext and in a > terminal I use "tail -f <file>". It lets me stop in a breakpoint from > the IDE and watch in the terminal the current value with a writeln. > It's not the best, but it works for what I need. May be later I will > learn how to use the gdb from command line. > > By the way, I thought gdb was unable to display Pascal variables, but > if gdb is able to display the value of any variable in Pascal, what's > the problem of Lazarus's IDE in displaying the value? It uses gdb as > debugger backend. doesn't it? Yes. But not every variable has a simple mapping in the debugging info. MSEGui does some more tricks to fill some gaps. The codetools can probably provide enough information to map. Marc can probably give more details.

The current debugger should be able to display all variable values (except those defined with absolute and maybe those in procedures defined within procedures)

So please let me know in what situation it fails (if gdb is able to show them)

Properties are a different beast.

Marc

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