I developed a teaching / learning edition for pascal based on Delphi and RemObjects Pascal Script.

There are two different levels at the moment :

One is Logo like and tested with children of 9 years and up, another uses objects based on the main form of the application with no objects to be declared inside the program. The second one is tested with pupils of 14 years and up.

My idea is to downgrade the Lazarus ide by compiler options in order to make it more simple for beginners and to add some tools like wizards and so on. May be I need help, but some tools are ready in the Delphi application.

I would like to know, if there is interest in such a tool.

Rainer Hamann

Sure. Please ask bevore you implement something in deep. The Core Developers often have ther own POV what should happen with and in the IDE. (And mostly they are right ;)) So just discuss what you want to add and what way you choose to implement it to not do the work twice.

Well I am interested.

Adding Wizards looks a good idea to me.

regards Wim

Me too.

Adding Wizards looks a good idea to me.

Mattias

Rainer Hamann ha scritto:

I developed a teaching / learning edition

for pascal based on Delphi and

RemObjects Pascal Script. There

are two different levels at the moment :

One is Logo like and

tested with children of 9 years and up, another

uses objects based

on the main form of the application with no objects

to be declared

inside the program. The second one is tested with pupils

of 14 years

and up.

My idea is to downgrade the Lazarus ide by compiler options

in order to

make it more simple for beginners and to add some tools

like wizards and

so on. May be I need help, but some tools are ready

in the Delphi

application. I would like to know, if there is

interest in such a tool.
I've done a messages composer package (manage
messagedlg, questiondlg, inputbox, showmessage ect.). It's rought but for what I need is OK. I already proposed it to the Laz developers but I got no reply. I can send it either to you or to the list and, of course, I can work on it.
Salvatore Coppola

Rainer Hamann

Just an idea, but maybe the IDE Plugins API could be extended so that one can substitute the Compiler Options dialog (or modify it, keeping only the first tab for beginners, for example) and do other things necessary for the project. This way the project could be developed as a plugin instead of as a patch to Lazarus.

thanks,

messagedlg, questiondlg, inputbox, showmessage ect.). It's rought but for what I need is OK. I already proposed it to the Laz developers but I got no reply.

What is the bug number of the patch in the bug tracker?

Vincent

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available
Url: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20080312/9c09fa2b/attachment.pl

Vincent Snijders ha scritto:

schreef: >

messagedlg, questiondlg, inputbox, showmessage ect.). It's rought but for what I need is OK. I already proposed it to the Laz developers but I got no reply.

What is the bug number of the patch in the bug

tracker?

I sent to the old patch email address

uploaded
0010994:
MessageComposer Package

Salvatore

My idea is to hide many of the menu items and parts of the objects bar and to extend the source editor in order to simplify it for children. Is it better, if it is done by compiler options or by runtime options?

I would prefer compiler options like :

procedure TMainIDEBase.SetupFileMenu;
var
  ParentMI: TIDEMenuSection;
begin
  with MainIDEBar do begin
    CreateMenuSeparatorSection(mnuFile,itmFileNew,'itmFileNew');
    ParentMI:=itmFileNew;
    {$IFDEF LAZ4EDU}
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileNewOther,'itmFileNewOther',lisMenuNewOther,'menu_new');
    CreateMenuSeparatorSection(mnuFile,itmFileOpenSave,'itmFileOpenSave');
    ParentMI:=itmFileOpenSave;
    CreateMenuItem(ParentMI, itmFileOpen, 'itmFileOpen', lisMenuOpen,
'menu_open');
    CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileRevert,'itmFileRevert',lisMenuRevert,
'menu_file_revert');
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileSave,'itmFileSave',lisMenuSave,'menu_save');
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileSaveAs,'itmFileSaveAs',lisMenuSaveAs,'menu_saveas_16');
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileClose,'itmFileClose',lisMenuClose,'menu_close',false);
    {$ELSE}
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileNewUnit,'itmFileNewUnit',lisMenuNewUnit,'menu_new_unit');
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileNewForm,'itmFileNewForm',lisMenuNewForm,'menu_new_form');
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileNewOther,'itmFileNewOther',lisMenuNewOther,'menu_new');
    CreateMenuSeparatorSection(mnuFile,itmFileOpenSave,'itmFileOpenSave');
    ParentMI:=itmFileOpenSave;
    CreateMenuItem(ParentMI, itmFileOpen, 'itmFileOpen', lisMenuOpen,
'menu_open');
    CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileRevert,'itmFileRevert',lisMenuRevert,
'menu_file_revert');
CreateMenuSubSection(ParentMI,itmFileRecentOpen,'itmFileRecentOpen',lisMenuOpenRecent);
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileSave,'itmFileSave',lisMenuSave,'menu_save');
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileSaveAs,'itmFileSaveAs',lisMenuSaveAs,'menu_saveas_16');
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileSaveAll,'itmFileSaveAll',lisMenuSaveAll,'menu_save_all');
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileClose,'itmFileClose',lisMenuClose,'menu_close',false);
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileCloseAll,'itmFileCloseAll',lisMenuCloseAll,'menu_close_all',false);
CreateMenuSeparatorSection(mnuFile,itmFileDirectories,'itmFileDirectories');
    ParentMI:=itmFileDirectories;
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileCleanDirectory,'itmFileCleanDirectory',lisMenuCleanDirectory,
'menu_clean');
    CreateMenuSeparatorSection(mnuFile,itmFileIDEStart,'itmFileIDEStart');
    ParentMI:=itmFileIDEStart;
CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileRestart,'itmFileRestart',lisMenuRestart,
'menu_restart_16');
    {$ENDIF}
    CreateMenuItem(ParentMI,itmFileQuit,'itmFileQuit',lisMenuQuit,
'menu_exit');
  end;
end;

Rainer Hamann

An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: not available
Url: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20080312/47607664/attachment.pl

I think this is a very good suggestion, it also illustrates the power of the IDE interface.

Michael.

I am not sure, what must still in Lazarus after hiding, my be you like to have new IDE for FPC compiler but with GUI like as Turbo Pascal for windows 1.5?

2008/3/12 Michael Van Canneyt :

Rainer Hamann a ?crit :

Yes, I'm interested, also having it in several languages. I can contribute the french bindings if necessary.

Thierry

I can contribute the dutch bindings.

I start a new project based on project.pp and I will hide many menu items like you did it in the example. Some very few functions of the IDE must replaced by others. I hope, that it is possible to override them from within my code.

Rainer Hamann

Yes, it is. But I guess, this will will make bug reports confusing and will break compatibility with other packages. So, I suggest to hide the items and add some new.

I don't understand what you mean with 'based on project.pp'. Will you create the laz4edu (or edulaz or lazedu or whatever) package?

Mattias

I created a project laz4edu.lpi and I used project.pp as starter.

Do you mean a *.lpk package? For schools and for pupils must is be very simple to install and to use the software, because many pupils and many teachers administrating the computers at school do not have much experience in reconfiguration of a software.

Rainer Hamann

Installing a package is easier than compiling the IDE with a flag.

Mattias

Rainer Hamann wrote

Do you mean a *.lpk package? For schools and for pupils must is be very simple to install and to use the software, because many pupils and many teachers administrating the computers at school do not have much experience in reconfiguration of a software.

Just provide a installer with the package pre-installed. At least the GLScene team already does that.

Hi.

I developed a teaching / learning edition for pascal based on Delphi and RemObjects Pascal Script. There are two different levels at the moment : One is Logo like and tested with children of 9 years and up, another

There was a pascal-based programming language & IDE called "Karel", and it work similar to logo:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_%28programming_language%29

Unfortunately, I was for DOS. There was even a book.

There are modern versions, but related to C/C++ & Java.

Im not sure, but seems that the tool you are working, and the "Karel" tool share similar things, like
a visual representation, kids can understand, like logo, and an structured programming language based on pascal.

Many schools doesn't teach programming stuff like logo, anymore, they don't found it useful :-s

But, I have confirmed, that such kind of tools,
actually improve kids ability to solve problems,
in life, even if they don't go to study Programming in Collegue or University...

I would like to know, if there is interest in such a tool.

Could you define "interest" ?

I think a such kind of tool could be good, for schools.

If you are looking for developers, you could be more specific.

My daily job doesn't leave me much of a time, but your project seems useful, I may see how I can help...

Cheers.

maramirezc

Hi,

sorry for my very late answer to your message.

1) I'm working with a logo-like version of Pascal for the first few lessons to teach the structure of Pascal and to find correct algorithms for graphical problems.

2) Later on in a second level object are used, but there is no class declaration visible for the students. Before the compilation starts, the source code is extend to unit with class declarations.

3) At the third level Students use several forms with class declaration inside their source code.

These steps make it easier for beginners and they more often have success in creating a correct program.

I will try to develop a first version for Lazarus in order to show you and others, what my personal opinion of an educational version of Lazarus.

Karel (and other tools) leave a break between the version for beginners and the version of the IDE / programming students have to use afterwards. Many teachers I know, say that their students are not able to create a correct class declaration even after a year of education.

Regards,

Rainer Hamann

Please tell me how I can help.

regards Wim

I have uploaded a first version (VERY beginning) of laz4edu. Debugging of the Lazarus IDE needed a few hours in order to understand, how parts of the IDE are working. It can be configured very easy, congratulations to the designers!!

Developers are welcome!

You can download my Delphi version of "visual_itg", but source is not included, because I used some commercial components.

Windows EXE, run with wine :
http://www.hamann-kiel.de/laz4edu/itg-delphi.zip
see README included

Source of laz4edu :
http://www.hamann-kiel.de/laz4edu/laz4edu-ide.zip
see README included

Create a directory {$LazarusDir}/laz4edu-ide and put the contents of laz4edu-ide.zip into that directory. Open the project file laz4edu.lpi and compile and start it. I always have an exception class 'External: SIGSEGV' when closing it. No idea why at the moment.

Rainer Hamann

Rainer Hamann wrote

Source of laz4edu : http://www.hamann-kiel.de/laz4edu/laz4edu-ide.zip see README included

When I try to build this the compiler stops with "can't find unit Unix used by LazConf" which puzzles me since I can't find any reference to a unit called Unix in any of the project source files. Can anyone shed any light? -------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/pipermail/lazarus/attachments/20080325/43a9f67e/attachment.html