Michael A. Hess wrote:
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Matjaz Mihelic wrote:

Not to think I'm not pleased by that change. Looks nice, but it wouldbe a shame, that logo would make excuse to take on such great project.p.s. This logo is nicer but even more provocative than last, if you askme.

Which one are you refering to???My first attempt using the Delphi 4 graphic or the new original art workusing the cheetah? The second one is the one we are using. I'm afraid Idon't understand your concerns with it. :-\

in case of fonts.. all of them.

But I think cheetah is too aggresive, since you put cheetah over symbols that clearly define Borland (stone >> Delphi) (the other product is clearly resource workshop or object vision shapes in the air) (fonts borland). Penguin under Athena disguise was less ofensive.
I was reffering from watching legal cases over less intrusion (Krayon >> Crayon) (Windows >> LindowsOS) If you'd look on borland page you'd see that all logotypes and names that I specify are registred trademarks.

Again to be said this is my legal opinion looking from the points of legal cases that happend in last few months over less than that.

If you're ok, I'm cool, since I like logo very much. This was my observation and not criticism.

matjaz

Which one are you refering to???

My first attempt using the Delphi 4 graphic or the new original art work using the cheetah? The second one is the one we are using. I'm afraid I don't understand your concerns with it. :-\

Logo is nice, but don't you think you're playing with fire... People get sued for less than that. Delphi stone is just too obvious. Geometric simbols floating around, well borland had same simbols elsewhere. Fonts used on all borland products.

Not to think I'm not pleased by that change. Looks nice, but it would be a shame, that logo would make excuse to take on such great project.

p.s. This logo is nicer but even more provocative than last, if you ask me.

Matjaz Mihelic wrote

I appreciate your concerns, however .....

I was reffering from watching legal cases over less intrusion (Krayon >> Crayon) (Windows >> LindowsOS)

Both of those involved the name of the product. In those cases the name itself is trademarked and that was the infringment. We don't have any names that have anything to do with Borland Delphi.

If you'd look on borland page you'd see that all logotypes and names that I specify are registred trademarks.

That isn't exactly true.

They can't trademark a font. They also can't trademark geometric shapes. They can trademark a complete logo but not elements that are used to make the logo. They certainly can't trademark images from the Greek Delphi site.

If you read the Borland Trademark page it refers to the following being trademarked:

Borland
Delphi

as words and logos. You may also not use their graphic logos that would misrepresent your product as being part of or connected to Delphi.

I don't think there is any danger of someone mistaking the Lazarus graphic logo as being a part of Delphi or Borland. The original one and my first new one, yes, they could have had a complaint. The new one has no relation to about it a minute. If you step back and look at the logo and imagine you had no idea what the Lazarus project was would you infer from the new logo that it had anything to do with Borland Delphi? The only possible way would be the fact that the work pascal is in there.

I don't think we have to worry about the new graphic. At least I'm not going to. :-)

I agree with Michael as well. The Greek symbols copyright must have expired some thousands years ago :-)

And I like the logo with cheetah most, it is very cool and professionally looking!

Michal

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Michael Van Canneyt wrote

A little off-topic, but whoever heard of trademarking the name of a city ? What kind of nonsense is that ?

Well it goes beyond that. They weren't even the first. Did you ever hear of Delphi Automotive Systems? http://www.delphi.com

A little off-topic, but whoever heard of trademarking the name of a city ? What kind of nonsense is that ?

Delphi is - to my knowledge - a city in Greece, Europe. It has existed since more than 2500 years. I doubt Borland can prove that it used the name first ? People in the trademarking office obviously have not enjoyed a classical education, or they would have rejected this trademark at once. Maybe we should write an email to the mayor of Delphi (the city) and ask him to sue Borland. They should win this case hands-down. :-)

That said, I think the name Delphi is a good name for a product; Just the fact that you can trademark it is beyond my intellectual capabilities. :/

Michael.

I reply to this since I have first hand experience. ( I apologize if it is a bit long )

1) I am the patent holder of several international patents in process control
2) I am ripped off on a dayly basis and take the crap as it comes and deals with it..
3) My patents produced products such as at http://www.accudry.com http://www.accudry.net etc and many others.

That said, I am an opensource convert and wish there were such mechanisms for hardware in order that I could shed the expensive patenting process to protect myself.

I proudly use fpk to develop my embedded software on, for these products although the lack of assembler migration and port control is a serious handicap and dos just has to do in some cases.
My PhD in numerical relativity also boasts with FPK routines for which credits to fpk appears.

Regarding Intellectual property issues.

The "noise" laws.
As an intellectual property holder, it is better to be ripped of some time and be paid occasionally than to try and inflict yourself to let everybody conform all the time.
In the end everyone girates to that former state and so does MS Borland and myself eventually.
Therefore chances are that you will not be approached..and if you do it might not be wotrthwhile to proceed.

Regarding the logo

The LAW is:
1) not at all concerned whether a cheetah is agressive whee's on the pillar or anything for that matter ---it is irrelevant -- so just forget about such emotrional concerns. You could put Mike Tyson on there for that matter as long as you ask mike permission and Borland has zip to do with it - OK?. since you have the Cheetah's permission....that is settled.
2) extremely concerned about whether the customer will be confused by your logo in believing that they buy or get Delphi by downloading your software. This is EXTREMELY serious. In this regard the "objects may be of concern..., but in general you should change it a bit... Make the circles ovals the triangles with two long legs and one short....the sqaure a parallelogram etc etc..... Although they still might have claims you really make it much more difficult for them.
Then change the darn pillar, use a different pillar if you want. All that is left then is association.
3) only concerned with people they can claim money from. As Lazarus has no vested capital....I dont think they will try to sue you...at most you will be forced to change the logo...if it comes to that. I personally would not sue you as you have no money ----period. You might get a bit of serious threats and hoo/ha but that's that.
4) This has nothing to do with the Lindows case either...we all know that Lindows are sued because of their ability to compete and the nameplay is really a weak case...but all Ms has to go on.
5) I will see my patent attorney at Venable Washington during the next two weeks and will run the issue past him and report back to you....but I guess the answer wont differ much from the above.

My personal opinion....Lazarus is already better than Delphi's drunken Kylix wine-port...( I would not waste my professional time writing to you if Kylix worked for me).
The logo is not of that much importance and you should keep your eye on the ball......which is..
If you could rather only get those darn step-into/over and breakpoints sorted out the whole DOS/windows Pascal/Delphi community can migrate. Believe me there is a large Delphi/Pascal community ready to convert to Linux ...except.......
At the moment everyone I know stays away from FPK/Lazarus and just laughs at it when they hear there are no debugger options when I try to win them over to Linux/fpk. That is the reality I found...and my reality too.