I sincerely hope so.
The words by Dalton Calford make me a bit sceptical though.

(Completely aside: the whole Interbase show of the last year should send a nice apple-red color to the cheeks of the Inprise managers :) )

He wanted contact information and mentioned who he was going to pass it along to.

Who would that be (if it's not a secret of course)? Rick Nadler or maybe Chuck Jadzewski (not sure about spelling here), Just Curious. Or maybe it's some marketing guy...

The open edition will be if you download it :)

or Free as in open source.

If Mr. Stallman or the FSF do that, I think they have an attitude problem. After all, GPL isn't the next biggest thing since 1+1=2. It's just a license like any other. They act like it's a religion.

You get the CLX and RTL for free, so make something better with it. I thought that was what open source was all about?

Maybe, but I doubt that this means assigning an engineer to do some work on FPC :-)

Not to mention that FPC has made some great strides since then :)

Ah well, enough gossip. Back to work.

Michael.

The only thing i can think of is that lazarus supports building applications that use the CLX. Lazarus and FPC things should stay clean from CLX dependencies.

Peter Vreman wrote

The only thing i can think of is that lazarus supports building applications that use the CLX. Lazarus and FPC things should stay clean from CLX dependencies.

There is no problem with FPC and Lazarus being clean of CLX dependencies. The problem might be can we use CLX and keep it independent of FPC and Lazarus when compiling it with FPC? Maybe that isn't a problem but some of the licensing stuff can get really tricky.

Careful, they may try to contract you :-)

Tried and tested Microsoft tactics:
Buy the people in the camp of the enemy and thus cripple them. These days mr. Gates probably just buys the enemy personally :)

Michael.

Dalton Calford wrote

Beware the marketing spin and do not sign anything and be VERY careful as to copywrite or shrink wrap license traps.

I see the cooporation as being limited on both parts. It was more or less with the idea of helping us get Lazarus to work with CLX in it's open source license format. It was never with the intention that we would contribute to their product only that we would be able to incorporate Kylix GPL'ed code with the Lazarus code and IDE.

Will the dialog and corporation happen? I don't know.

Can we do it if we want to? That is even more of the question. Since the FCL, RTL, LCL, etc. are a modified LGPL so that commercial products can be built I don't know that we could even integrate CLX marginally unless it was a totally different branch and didn't use the FCL or LCL to produce products. Then it could be just a GPL'ed product which the CLX code is under.

Again time will tell.

(This licensing stuff gives me a headache)

I don't think it is much further than working with us to get CLX usable with Lazarus which would also intail working with the FPC team to make sure that it is as compatible as possible.

The big missings are WideChar and Variants support

Hi,

Nice talk on the linux show.

It seems that most things which should have been said were said. It's also good to know that our ideas about the Kylix license were pretty accurate.

What intrigues me is: what else did Michael Swindell say about Lazarus and Free Pascal after the show ?
Are they really prepared to cooperate ?
And how far does 'cooperation' go ?

Back in 1999, the idea of cooperation was met with a certain scepticism by Borland employees, so I would like to know what changed their mind.

Michael.

Hi Michael,

I was in the middle of the whole Interbase/ISC/Inprise/Borland Fiasco. I dealt directly with all the involved parties.
I can tell you that even if you get a commitment from a senior member of management at borprise, you can not count on it. Even the board of directors was kept in the dark concerning alot of the actions being taken at that time. Arbitrary decisions and political infighting were the order of the day inside borland at the time and I have been given no indication that it has changed.

The one thing that has shown true, is that they will take full advantage of any marketing benefits they can get while ensuring they have full control to the end.

Ah well, enough gossip. Back to work.

:)

Too true, oh so true....

best regards

Dalton

If you want to question the ability of Borland to cooperate, simply jump over to www.interbase2000.com or www.ibphoenix.com

Borland is now directly competing with their one and only open source project.
They have not made any postings to thier interbase project at sourceforge, but, they have a internal tree that is closed to all. They will not allow anyone else post to thier 'open source' project either.

They have bad mouthed the community around the product and sent threatening letters to all individuals who have openly supported the open source project.

Beware the marketing spin and do not sign anything and be VERY careful as to copywrite or shrink wrap license traps.

best regards

Dalton

Michael Van Canneyt wrote

What intrigues me is: what else did Michael Swindell say about Lazarus and Free Pascal after the show ?

It wasn't a great deal more than to indicate that what was said during the show wasn't just lip service. He wanted contact information and mentioned who he was going to pass it along to.

Are they really prepared to cooperate ?

Well that remain to be seen doesn't it. It will all depend on what kind of noise is made after the release of Kylix. We all know that the FSF will debunk it since it isn't Free as in cost or Free as in open source.

And how far does 'cooperation' go ?

I don't think it is much further than working with us to get CLX usable with Lazarus which would also intail working with the FPC team to make sure that it is as compatible as possible.

Back in 1999, the idea of cooperation was met with a certain scepticism by Borland employees, so I would like to know what changed their mind.

Hey controversy and a public forum is a wonderful thing. ;-)

The above is exactly why I am shall we say skeptical about the future release of a free downloadable version of Kylix.

First off...why wait?

If there isn't any difference as was stated in the show last night and CLX will be released with just the GPL license and not the "No Nonsense" agreement then why wait 6 months?

Either of 2 things.

1. They are waiting to see how well it sells from the start. If sales aren't that good we will not see a free version. They will not give away what they need to make money with.

2. As was indicated above maybe they really do not have a commitment from the top brace to actually make a free version. They could be hoping to get that commitment or it could be a marketing ploy to get people onboard with using Kylix then change their mind making people that want to continue to use it, buy it.

I am also somewhat confused by the dual license. If someone makes modifications to CLX and makes it available aka releases it as GPL does that mean it no longer cares the "No Nonsense" license. So the minute someone makes a modification to CLX, that precludes it from being used commercially????

It went in one ear and out the other. It was an engineer or tech. guy but I can't remember the name. Maybe Shane does.

> We all know that the FSF will debunk ... If Mr. Stallman or the FSF do that, I think they have an attitude problem.

In my opinion they do have an attitude problem. I already ignore anything that comes out of the FSF as utopian hyperbole.

Hehehe. Now you are telling funny jokes. :-)