Yes, at least partially.

Michael.

No it is not...

- Sebastian

+ From: ]On
+ Behalf Of Michael Van Canneyt

+ > What is not handled ?
+
+ Reading isn't handled yet. Writing should work.

:-) :-)

Hmmm.....

had a quick look around the corner.....

and nope doesn't look good ;-)

Marc

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Marc Weustink wrote

Whats wrong today, did something happen ? You sound so negative :-)

No, not really... I just felt that some things have to be said.

I have to admit, writing english is not my strongest point.

you are surely not the only one having this problem ;)

So it can happen that I don't write things down which are completely obvious. And yes it *IS* clear that controls don't stream their properties.

I have just the impression (and that is not new) that generally in Lazarus there is too less real invention. Huge parts are just copied (see mwEdit or the compiler output redirection stuff). I don't remember that anybody of the Lazarus team has yet contributed anything to the compiler or core libraries.
Lazarus is a typcial American project in a way (which doesn't apply to you personally, of course): More energy goes into 'marketing' than real development. Lazarus is on Freashmeat, and has been mentioned on Slashdot. But compare the current state to this publicity. Do you really think this is good? How many people are really contributing anything, but how many people just get disappointed because of promised features that just aren't there yet?

Look, I encountered many of the problems you have now quite a long time ago with KCL (the streaming was something I already dealt with last autumn), and I found out that many of the critical parts of the VCL are not the visual ones, but it's more like the streaming works, how certain components and attached classes work together etc.; and you can be sure that I have good reasons why I stopped KCL as a wrapper around existing libraries such as GTK... But we'll see, for GPL projects it's quite usual that different teams try different approaches.

- Sebastian

Florian Klaempfl wrote

Just look at the performance of the German soccer team in Rotterdam ;-)

You won't ever see me watching football or similar things. So this can't be the reason ;)
(there _is_ no reason.)

- Sebastian

I never wrote that Controls need to stream published properties on thair own !!

you don't really expect that the Lazarus team will get anything really working, no? If even such basic things are not clear...

Whats wrong today, did something happen ? You sound so negative :-)

I have to admit, writing english is not my strongest point. So it can happen that I don't write things down which are completely obvious. And yes it *IS* clear that controls don't stream their properties.

Thanks

Marc

+ Behalf
+ Of Sebastian G�nther

+ Shane Miller wrote:
+ >
+ > Could someone explain to me how it works please. +
+ Reading DFM files simply doesn't work yet. (that writing
+ should work is new for me...)
+ And adding reading support is not a matter of a few hours of
+ work, this is a really heavy task if it should be implemented
+ properly. I already had a look on this over 8 months ago, and it
+ will still need a few weeks until I can try to add full
+ serialisation support to FCL.
+ BTW, don't underestimate the work you will have to make LCL
+ streaming-aware ;)

Thats another point.
The main idea behind my question is/was that a major part of creating a LFM consists of the streaming of Components.
If we can stream components we have a core LFM.
I'm aware of the fact that all LCL controls have to stream their own data, but this is "simply" implementing some overridden baseclass methods. I'm also aware that implementing streaming in TCOmponent isn't easy. If I look at Borlands implementation, it also is a part of the compiler.

Marc

No, no !
Components only very seldom stream part of their own data. (with the DefineProperties call)

All 'published' properties are streamed automatically by the streaming system. There is no need for a component to stream this data once more.

but this is "simply" implementing some overridden baseclass methods. I'm also aware that implementing streaming in TCOmponent isn't easy. If I look at Borlands implementation, it also is a part of the compiler.

That is, the compiler generates the RTTI, which you need for streaming. Other than that, no compiler support is needed. The RTTI is already generated by the compiler, only the streaming itself must be implemented.

Michael.

+ From: Shane Miller

+ I need someone to look at how we are going to build the DFM
+ files in lazarus. How are we going to use them?

Isn't this done by simply streaming the TComponent. IOW isn't this already handled by the fcl ?

Marc

Answers to questions:
1: What is the structure of the development team? :

Structure? What structure? Basically there are a few folks here that are working on Lazarus. Me, marc, mhess, and a few others. There's no real structure. We use our mailing list and web site to converse and basically we all have responsibilites but they are so flexible that they aren't worth mentioning...

2: Documentation: The only documentation available is on our web site http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org. It contains the documentation and any help that we could provide. You will find that this mailing list is the best place to get answers.

3: Existing team members: You can get a basic list from the web site....

4: Who is responsible for WHAT job?: Again, we are pretty flexable. If you would like to try to attempt something, you simply try it and let us know if changes are required to our existing code. For now, WE update CVS and once we know your skills and such we will give access to CVS so you can post your own changes...

5: Minimum time to work? Zero seconds. We want everyone to have fun doing this. We don't put any pressure on anyone and if we do put pressure on someone, it doesn't work so why bother. No one is forced to put this in front of anything else. If we see that we need something and you said you would do it but you haven't had time to do it, we MAY do it ourselves to speed it up. There are no requirements put on the developers...we only wish you spend a ton of time on this. :-)

6: How are jobs assigned? You ask what you can do and I'll give you sugesstions like in the previous email. If something sounds good, let us know and you can try it...

(how do you spell) Gracious.
Shane

>> 06/19/00 11:12AM >>>

Hola ;) < Hello >

First thank you for your answer. I have very strong knowledge of SQL and Databases ( SyBase, etc.. ), OOP, Shell script.. , I have been programming in Delphi.

I would like know ...

1.- How is structured the developers team?
2.- Documentation ?
3.- Exists team leaders ?
4.- Who is responsable of my job ?
5.- What is the minimun time I have to work ?
6.- How job is assigned ?

Thank you very much !!!

Bye,

Jose Mojada

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"unsubscribe" as the Subject
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Could someone explain to me how it works please.

Thanks
Shane

>> 06/20/00 04:09AM >>>

Yes, at least partially.

Michael.

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"unsubscribe" as the Subject
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Hola ;) < Hello >

First thank you for your answer. I have very strong knowledge of SQL and Databases ( SyBase, etc.. ), OOP, Shell script.. , I have been programming in Delphi.

I would like know ...

1.- How is structured the developers team?
2.- Documentation ?
3.- Exists team leaders ?
4.- Who is responsable of my job ?
5.- What is the minimun time I have to work ?
6.- How job is assigned ?

Thank you very much !!!

Bye,

Jose Mojada

Hola! Como esta? Hablo espanol un poco. Es muy mal. :-)

OK, what would you like to do? What experience do you have?

We need the following:

Some one to code the IDE to RUN the application once you select RUN in the menu's. You can use the smae coe eI use to run the compiler when they press BUILD.

We need someone to run through the coee and verify that certain components are completed. At this point we haven't said that any of the LCL (vcl) are completed as of yet.

I need someone to code the IDE so that when the user select BUILD it adds the create code (somehow) and compiles.

I need someone to look at how we are going to build the DFM files in lazarus. How are we going to use them?

I need someone to continue adding components to the tool bar for dropping onto the form. This involves adding code to idecomp and to main.pp

We have a few components that need work. Trackbar, Statusbar, TListbox, TGrid, TDB????, and many others are missing.

I need somone to create a method for adding Menu's via the IDE. I can drop a menu "speedbutton" on the form and when you double click it calls the IDECOMP's TIDEMENU.DoubleClick method. This should bring up a menu editor.

Want to try any of that? Please let me know By the way.....how was my spanish? :-)

Shane

>> 06/19/00 09:22AM >>>

Hello,

First sorry, but my english is not very good. I m linux user from Spain, and I would like know how I can participe in this project, and if I could do it in Spanish ��??

Thank you very much !!!

------------------------------------------------
Jos� Fco. Mojada
AXPE Consulting
( www.axpe.com )
------------------------------------------------
Movil: 617-652286
UNI2 Tel.: 912521200 Ext.: 27853
------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------
Join to project LAZARUS
http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org
------------------------------------------------

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Hi!

Shane Miller wrote

[..] We have a few components that need work. Trackbar,

TTrackbar should be useable. Take a look in the examples directory.

Statusbar

Already has some code but is only useable for SimpleText.

I'll send some updates information to Michael soon, so that the status page can be updated. Additonally I'll play around little bit with the existing components to find bugs:-(

bye,

Stefan

Reading isn't handled yet. Writing should work.

Michael.

+ From: ]On
+ Behalf Of Michael Van Canneyt
+
+ On Tue, 20 Jun 2000, Marc Weustink wrote:
+
+ > + From: Shane Miller
+ >
+ > + I need someone to look at how we are going to build the DFM
+ > + files in lazarus. How are we going to use them?
+ >
+ > Isn't this done by simply streaming the TComponent. IOW
+ isn't this already
+ > handled by the fcl ?
+
+ Yes, at least partially.

What is not handled ?

Marc

Marc Weustink wrote

Whats wrong today, did something happen ? You sound so negative :-)

Just look at the performance of the German soccer team in Rotterdam ;-)

Sebastian G�nther wrote

You won't ever see me watching football or similar things. So this can't

^^^^^^^^
soccer, of course

you don't really expect that the Lazarus team will get anything really working, no? If even such basic things are not clear...

- Sebastian

Shane Miller wrote

Could someone explain to me how it works please.

Reading DFM files simply doesn't work yet. (that writing should work is new for me...)
And adding reading support is not a matter of a few hours of work, this is a really heavy task if it should be implemented properly. I already had a look on this over 8 months ago, and it will still need a few weeks until I can try to add full serialisation support to FCL. BTW, don't underestimate the work you will have to make LCL streaming-aware ;)

- Sebastian

Not DFM files, but I did create text files with the textwriter.

If it was easy, it would probably have been done a long time ago :(

Michael.

Hello,

First sorry, but my english is not very good. I�m linux user from Spain, and I would like know how I can participe in this project, and if I could do it in Spanish ��??

Thank you very much !!!

------------------------------------------------
Jos� Fco. Mojada
AXPE Consulting
( www.axpe.com )
------------------------------------------------
Movil: 617-652286
UNI2 Tel.: 912521200 Ext.: 27853
------------------------------------------------

------------------------------------------------
Join to project LAZARUS
http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org
------------------------------------------------