Why? Then we've no real competition for FPC :) :) :)

----- Original Message -----

This has been announced some time ago in Linux Journal, I think. (Or was it slashdot ?) it is well known that Corel was pushing the development of Wine.

The Delphi people were also wondering about having the IDE run on wine in an initial stage. If corel decides to push a little, that may be exactly what we will be facing, much to my regret.

My guess is that it is an economical decision: Why keep 2 versions of a product, if you can do it with one version + some additional libs ? (wine is, after all, just another library, albeit a big one.)

I think many application developers will follow this path; they proved that wine is a grown-up product.

But from a developer's point of view I'm with you in your 'hmmmmm..'..

Michael.

Don't bother with Wine, the Corel suite runs OK with Wine, so they used it; WP was already ported, but not Quattro, Paradox, etc., would take years and millions to do all the ports...

Delphi is way different, a compiler must have every bit of performance it can gets...

just my two cents...

Carlos

Florian Klaempfl wrote

> It is my fear as well... Why? Then we've no real competition for FPC :) :) :)

Because it will lower our user base. If current Windows developers can just write for Windows build their application and then copy it over to Linux to run in Wine they will never even WANT a real Linux development environment.

Secondly it will hurt some of the Open Source movement because the developer will not open his Windows source. While this will not completely hurt the Linux movement it will slow it down. If Delphi is made to easily work in Wine Visual Basic will not be far behind and that would slow things down more. IMHO.

Whatever the actual deal behind it I would reackon that you guys have one more reason to continue with Lazarus.

Agreed.

On the Inprise side one could also make the assumption that maybe WP was not developed for native Linux because of the missing existence of a PROPER development tool. Therefore this might just be a huge reason for Corel to get Inprise and to create a native development tool.

Hmmmmmm. Interesting viewpoint I had not considered.

Hi there,

Whatever the actual deal behind it I would reackon that you guys have one more reason to continue with Lazarus. On the Inprise side one could also make the assumption that maybe WP was not developed for native Linux because of the missing existence of a PROPER development tool. Therefore this might just be a huge reason for Corel to get Inprise and to create a native development tool.

Just a thought.

Alex

One of the reasons people like Linux is becuase it doesn't have some of the problems Windows has. By using WINE you end up pulling some of those problems over.

Inprise is not using WINE at this point and I don't think they plan to use it. However if Corel were to push it, they may be convinced. As far as I am concered I am hoping that the merger does NOT go through and Inprise is left alone for the time being. I personally will be voting against the merger....

Shane

>> 03/23/00 10:01AM >>>

This has been announced some time ago in Linux Journal, I think. (Or was it slashdot ?) it is well known that Corel was pushing the development of Wine.

The Delphi people were also wondering about having the IDE run on wine in an initial stage. If corel decides to push a little, that may be exactly what we will be facing, much to my regret.

My guess is that it is an economical decision: Why keep 2 versions of a product, if you can do it with one version + some additional libs ? (wine is, after all, just another library, albeit a big one.)

I think many application developers will follow this path; they proved that wine is a grown-up product.

But from a developer's point of view I'm with you in your 'hmmmmm..'..

Michael.

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Michael Van Canneyt wrote

This has been announced some time ago in Linux Journal, I think. (Or was it slashdot ?) it is well known that Corel was pushing the development of Wine.

I was aware of this I was just surprised by the fact that they abandoned what had already been some effort to create a native Linux version for an emulation version. I agree the 2 versions as opposed to just 1 version makes sense from an economic sense but it also means that they felt it was cheaper to do the emulation versions and throw out the existing Linux version. I fear they might come to the same conclusion with Delphi.

I felt Wine was suppose to be a transition tool. You could use your existing software investment on Linux while moving to Linux native applications which would be more efficient. I don't think I ever invisioned that people would develop specifically FOR Wine. This would mean that native Linux applications would never be created and we would be stuck with Windows limitations. :-(

It still needs to be voted on by Corel shareholders and I would assume that us Inprise shareholders get to vote to accept/decline the offer. I am choosing to decline it, especially with what has happened to the share price. Also, I'm not a big fan of Corel's management. Shane

>> 03/23/00 10:29AM >>>

Shane Miller wrote

As far as I am concered I am hoping that the merger does NOT go through and Inprise is left alone for the time being. I personally will be voting against the merger....

I assumed that it was a done deal. I didn't realize that there was the possibility of it not happening.

It is my fear as well...

Indeed a sad picture :(

I never understood the idea of Wine in the first place. Why would you want to run windows apps on Linux ? My experience is that it is best not to mix the two things; choose one, and stick to it.

Michael.

and I will provide the necessary competition regarding the open source alternatives, by continuing with KCL (of course...).

Apropos KCL: Currently I have a small problem called exams, but the next version should be quite source compatible to VCL. At least it should be possible to implement all those controls which are derived from TGraphicsControl in a way so that they compile both under KCL and LCL. I really think that it is nonsense to implement the high-level widgets like TxxxGrid and so on twice, for KCL and for LCL. I will be able to offer a more or less LCL compilable version of TKCLSHEdit and T[Custom|Draw|String]Grid with the next KCL release.

- Sebastian

Just to mention, Corel use WineLibs, not the wine decompiler. The Wine decompiler decompile Windows code and replace every Windows Call to call to the WineLibs. The WineLibs are simply a port of the WIN32 API to Linux i386, just like the LCL is a compatible version of the Borland VCL. So, the Corel Suite will be real native Linux i386 applications, simply running on libraries with a frankly sucking API.

Greetings,

Here is something that is very interesting. The following URL is a review of Corel WordPerfect Office 2000.

http://www.linuxworld.com/linuxworld/lw-2000-03/lw-03-vcontrol_3.html

The review of Office is interesting but that isn't what perked my ears up. It appears that the Office suite works using Wine. The big surprise involves Word Perfect. The Office suite comes with WP 9. The amazing thing is that they didn't continue with the Linux port of WP. They created a Wine version of WP 9. Even after going to all the effort of making WP 8 for Linux they have dropped it in favor or using Wine for their appliations.

This makes me go Hmmmmmmmmm.

If they opted to do this with a product that they had ALREADY ported to native Linux what will Corel's thinking be with Delphi. While it is true that comparing and office suite and a development environment isn't apples and apples but it does show a viewpoint about Corel that surprises me.

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Shane Miller wrote

As far as I am concered I am hoping that the merger does NOT go through and Inprise is left alone for the time being. I personally will be voting against the merger....

I assumed that it was a done deal. I didn't realize that there was the possibility of it not happening.

Don't worry it can't happen, for some stuff using Wine is Viable, but for something like Delphi or C++Builder, it would run like a dog, to resource intensive, esp as runs on the flawed windows model, i.e basically a Windows exe being emulated, on Linux, some stuff (i.e. stuff where the human is the speed bottle neck) wine may look good, but an emulator must be slower.

<<<<
Just my 0.2c worth
Wine Is Not an Emulator ;p)
It provides native api's under linux..
And I have already had part of delphi 4 running under wine..

The reason Corel chose to use wine initially, was simply to expedite the release of product. The next version will use winelib, which means it will be compiled natively for linux, and use the wine library to support some of the more wacky stuff in the windows api.

I can tell you first hand, because I use it every day, wine is not much slower than windows, and the only reason it is slower, is because the machine is doing a lot more in the background, and therefore the user interface does not have top priority, like it does in windows..

Brad..

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I very much doubt that this is a danger I'd say rather that the Union of Corel And borland Augurs for a second port in the future, from something in the article in question (i.e. note the comment "I still don't know what BDE Administrator") I'd say they could well have built this stuff with Delphi or C++Builder, so the thought occurs to me could Delphi and or C++Builder/ Kylix be a more economic porting strategy, you know build it in Borland stuff (VCL) with maybe a few lib to fill in gaps/iconpatable stuff not cover by the VCL and when Kylix comes just port it over nice and easy, no need for two complete sets of source etc.