Hello.
There is a new FreeBSD "pure X" distro with fpc 2.6.4 and fpc 3.0.0 installed.

https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/polydev-the-pure-x-freebsd-distribution.53085/

Take a look at "/About poly-cross-compilation./" in end of page.

Fre;D

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Many thanks ;-)

fredvs wrote

There is a new FreeBSD "pure X" distro with fpc 2.6.4 and fpc 3.0.0 installed.

Nicely done Fred! That will be very convenient for setting up quick development VM's per project or client.

Regards,
- Graeme -

That will be very convenient for setting up quick development VM's per project or client.

Thanks Graeme :-)

Huh, you may use it as VM project but as iso-live cdrom/ usb too. And you may also install it to device, like your main server ;-).

Cheers.

Fre;D

Glad to see this and hope to try it soon!

I've tried the *beta.0.1.iso several times on VMware 11 and it always shows the pretty splash screen then fails to mount the root. Is there anything you suggest I try?

I've tried the *beta.0.1.iso several times on VMware 11 and it always shows the pretty splash screen then fails to mount the root. Is there anything you suggest I try?

Hello and many thanks to try polYdev.

I use on a Netbook Pentium M, 4 gigas ram, from Linux Mint 17 64 bit with those config :

*- VMWare .*: (SCSI and SATA works for me).

<http://free-pascal-general.1045716.n5.nabble.com/file/n5722543/mem_vmware.png> <http://free-pascal-general.1045716.n5.nabble.com/file/n5722543/disk_vmware.png>

*- Virtual Box *: (SCSI gives a warning but works, IDE+SATA ok)

<http://free-pascal-general.1045716.n5.nabble.com/file/n5722543/virtualbox.png>

With normal boot, after few seconds, the splash screen disappear and console comes back.
Then the screen will fade out...
This take some time because system is buzy to mount local folders. If all ok, you should switch from fade_saver to console using the arrow keys.

Hope it wil lwork for you.

Fred

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Many thanks ;-)

Re-hello.

If after few seconds the splash screen does not disappear, it probably because of the console-fade-saver that makes trouble.

Aaaargh, I knew that this feature was "too much".

I will release it from the (maybe?) next version.

Fre;D

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Many thanks ;-)

I've tried the *beta.0.1.iso several times on VMware 11 and it always shows the pretty splash screen then fails to mount the root. Is there anything you suggest I try?

Re-re hello.

After testing here...

Impossible to run a FreeBSD bootable-iso with less than 2 gigas ram (tested FreeBSD official, GhostBSD, PC-BSD,...)

But the good news is that with VMware you may increase virtual ram, even if you do not have many in the hostmachine.

Hope it will work 4 you.

Fre;D

After increasing the memory I'm up and running. Thanks!

After increasing the memory I'm up and running. Thanks!

Fantastic ;-)

I just tried the new 1.1 version mentioned in the last message in this thread:
https://forums.freebsd.org/threads/53085/

I also updated the text about ideU at the bottom of this page: http://controlpascal.com/tutorial.htm

The short/small video showing the same program being compiled and run for 5 systems (FreeBSD 64/32, Linux 64/32 and Windows 32 bit) is *very* nice!

Regards,
Paul

Paul Breneman wrote

The short/small video showing the same program being compiled and run for 5 systems (FreeBSD 64/32, Linux 64/32 and Windows 32 bit) is *very* nice!

Yes, its even simpler to do cross-compiling with polYdev that it is with Code Typhon. Fred did a fantastic job.

Regards,
Graeme

@ Paul & Graeme: many thanks ;-)

Fre;D

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Many thanks ;-)

Interesting! I've always been interested in a painless headache free way to cross compile; so does polYdev not include lazarus and only focuses on fpc/mse/fpgui? If you wanted to cross compile a lazarus app... no go?

Lars wrote

to cross compile; so does polYdev not include lazarus and only focuses on fpc/mse/fpgui? If you wanted to cross compile a lazarus app... no go?

I haven't tested with Lazarus, but to install it, simply use git and clone the Laz repository (from Github) and do a 'make big ide' and go from there.

polYdev is definitely a fast and headache free way to have a development environment fully setup in no ,
Graeme

so does polYdev not include lazarus

Hello.

polYdev is a "Pure X" OS. "Pure X" because it does not use big widgetset like Gnome, Qt, ... for gui applications.

Lazarus needs those big widgetsets. But if you install Qt or Gnome on polYdev (pkg install qt), of course you may install Lazarus.

fpGUI and MSEgui are "Pure X" widgetsets and can be used, out of the box, with polYdev for gui applications.
And, of course, fpGUI and MSEgui applications can run on a Gnome or Qt system.

Fre;D

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Many thanks ;-)

I understand that you suggest you can't build the Lazarus IDE with defining fpGUI or CustomDrwan instead of Qt or Gnome (or Windows or Cocos).

Is that correct ?

Is this due to solved ?

-Michael

I understand that you suggest you can't build the Lazarus IDE with defining

fpGUI or CustomDrwan instead of Qt or Gnome (or Windows or Cocos).

Maybe I did not understand well.

AFAIK, for Unix os, Lazarus and LCL-widget-set need a "big native" widget-set, like GTK, KDE or Qt.

IMO (maybe I am wrong) LCL is, to resume, a "Pascal Header" of GTK, KDE or Qt widget-set C libraries.

In theory it is possible to build Lazarus with fpGUI-pure-X-widget-set but I was never able to do it work.

Also IMO (maybe I am wrong too for this), even for CustomDraw, a "big native·widget-set" is needed.

The polYdev "pure X" iso-cd is about 350 megas (with webbrowser-Opera, 5 different fpc, all video codec, audio+video player, ide, window-manager, wine decoder, etc...).

Installing the Gnome or KDE packages will need +- 950 megas more !

Fre;D

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Many thanks ;-)

Does lazarus even know about fpGUI.... I thought fpgui was never a part of lazarus.. did someone use fpgui with lazarus?

Or you were mistaken to think fpGUI was an option in lazarus?

Sorry I don't know myself, I'm not up to date on these things

I always remembered fpgui as a non visual development that was separate and never integrated in any way with lazarus widget set. Did this change?

Michael Schnell wrote

I understand that you suggest you can't build the Lazarus IDE with defining fpGUI or CustomDrwan instead of Qt or Gnome (or Windows or Cocos).

What Fred did with polYDev is create a minimal (read very small) fully functional FreeBSD install, that supports desktop development using FPC, includes a IDE (ideU a fork of MSEide with tons of custom modifications) for MSEgui and fpGUI development, cross-compilation out of the box for Linux32, Linux64, Win32, FreeBSD32 and FreeBSD64, a functional web browser, video player and GUI desktop environment. All in a small 350MB ISO. That is an impressive feat.

If you want Lazarus support, it means you need to install large 3rd party dependencies and Lazarus itself, which will bloat the OS by 500MB-1000MB more hard disk space. Fred didn't want that. Cross-compilation is also much easier with ideU than it is with Lazarus IDE.

Regards,
Graeme

Lars wrote

Does lazarus even know about fpGUI....

Yes, there is a LCL-fpGUI widgetset. It is still in alpha state, but all Standard component palette widgets (except TLabel) is supported, quite a few others too, as is all the dialogs and some WinAPI calls (eg: ShowMessage). It seems a permanent developer though to complete it. I contribute every now and then, and make sure it always compiles with the latest stable fpGUI. But my priority is improving and maintaining the "pure" fpGUI Toolkit, not the LCL-fpGUI wigetset of Lazarus.

I always remembered fpgui as a non visual development that was separate and never integrated in any way with lazarus widget set. Did this change?

Yes, that changed about 9 years ago. :) And no, fpGUI is *not* a non visual development environment. fpGUI comes with its own Visual Forms Designer, Help Viewer, demo IDE and many more. Part of fpGUI's design goals is to allow the developer flexibility, by not forcing them to use one specific IDE. With fpGUI you can use any IDE (yes, that means Lazarus, MSEide, Delphi, Geany, Eclipse etc) or any programmer editor (EditPad Pro, VIM, etc). You can then integrate context sensitive help and visual form designing via using those IDEs or editors "External Tools" functionality.

for example:
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/docview_ide_integration.shtml

Here are screenshots of fpGUI's help viewer, visual form designer (a bit old now) and demo IDE.

http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/screenshots_apps.shtml

Regards,
Graeme

While this is perfectly possible, IMHO it's not the way it should stay. The LCL is intended to provide compatible support for any Widget Type (aka interface). Of course CustomDraw and LCL-FpGUI might not be complete enough for a super complex application such as the Lazrus IDE.

In theory it is possible to build Lazarus with fpGUI-pure-X-widget-set but I was never able to do it work.

I see.

Also IMO (maybe I am wrong too for this), even for CustomDraw, a "big native·widget-set" is needed.

I don't see what you mean. AFAIK, the idea of "CustomDraw" Widget Type is to require only a minimal set of basic widgets (I did not get to research which ones exactly) to be provided by the underlying Widget Set.

(In fact I am still (on and off) working on a fully functional Widget Type that requires no Widget course here you will not see anything :-) . )

-Michael

Lars wrote

Or you were mistaken to think fpGUI was an option in lazarus?

"FpGUI" used to be an option (one of a selection of Widget Types, together with e.g. "GTK2", "CustomDraw", ...). At some point in time the "WidgetType" menu in the project options had been replaced by a possibility to set the appropriate Macro Value in "additions and Overrides". Here seemingly selecting one of the **supported** Widget Types (aka Interfaces) does not seem to be that easily possible any more. So I can't tell if FpGUI (i.e. the LCL-Version of same) is still available.

-Michael

Michael Schnell wrote

While this is perfectly possible,

It's not about "is perfectly possible", it is how LCL functions. The LCL requires a underlying toolkit, and the big three are Qt, GTK and Win32. LCL is just wrapper over those toolkits and represents a common API to the developer (well, it tries too).

(aka interface). Of course CustomDraw and LCL-FpGUI might not be complete enough for a super complex application such as the Lazrus IDE.

Correct, both LCL-CustomDrawn and LCL-fpGUI widgetsets are still incomplete - CustomDrawn more so that LCL-fpGUI (from my last tests about 2 weeks ago). That doesn't mean they can't handle large scale applications - they can, but those LCL widgetset interfaces need to be completed first. Just like LCL-GTK3 is not complete yet.

Anyway, Fred's idea of a Free Pascal oriented FreeBSD distro is a brilliant idea. It allows you to setup a fully functional development environment in a matter of minutes, that would otherwise have taken hours.

Regards,
Graeme

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

On 2016-11-08 10:00, Michael Schnell wrote: > While this is perfectly possible, It's not about "is perfectly possible",

I meant "It's perfectly possible that it does not work (yet)" ;-).

-Michael

Lars wrote

Does lazarus even know about fpGUI

Version 1.6 on Windows: even in the GUI:
Project -> Project Options -> Additions and Overrides -> Set "LCLWidgetType" -> Drop Down selection Value "fpgui".

Sadly in my compiled "trunk" version 1.7 on Linux the <"LCLWidgetType"> drop down menu is not shown any more :-(.

Bug or erroneous configuration on my site ?

-Michael

if you want Lazarus support, it means you need to install large 3rd party dependencies and Lazarus itself, which will bloat the OS by 500MB-1000MB more hard disk space.

Huh, yes but this only for the main system.

If you want a poly-compiling system (like polYdev) you need to install also all the dependencies for FreeBSD 32 + Linux 64 + Linux 32.

And for this you will need +- 2.5 gigas.

Fre;D

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Many thanks ;-)

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

Yes, that changed about 9 years ago. :) And no, fpGUI is *not* a non visual development environment. fpGUI comes with its own Visual Forms Designer, Help Viewer, demo IDE and many more.

Thanks for clarifying. I have always wanted to try fpGUI, but it's always the same fear that stops me: like msegui, the issue is there is no torry.net for it with years and years of contributed components. It seems like a good tool to start a project in, if you don't require some special component from torry.net or lazarus. I always end up needing to pull in some component from the internet at some point, I tend not to write a pure GUI app that uses no one elses components.

I hate this fear that I have, because it causes me to stick to using delphi since I know I have an insurance plan available (torry.net) if I need a component that I don't feel like writing myself, that someone already else has.

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

What Fred did with polYDev is create a minimal (read very small) fully functional FreeBSD install, that supports desktop development using FPC, includes a IDE (ideU a fork of MSEide with tons of custom modifications)

Does ideU support multiple programming languages as an editor? Without trying it myself, for example, does it include multiple syntax highlighters? can you write your own syntax highlighter? Mseide seems mostly based on fpc and not as many other languages, although I heard that Martin sometimes does C development in mseide.

I see. Also Graeme's email explained it too. However, how compatible are these widget sets with each other? Since they are coded with entirely different styles, you can't just select fpgui and recompile the app, right? You have to take an entirely different coding approach. So you weren't trying to imply that lazarus, could be recompiled to use fpgui based widgets inside the lazarus exe/elf itself? i.e. a lazarus ide, that is based on fpgui widgets, so it could run on pure X and no gtk/kde needed. To me that would seem like a huge leap. If possible, almost magic.

Doesn't fpgui take a different approach to programming, so if you start a project in win32/gtk style, you can't easily port it to fpgui due to enormous differences here and there in the way gui programming is done..

As I'm out of touch with fpGUI (really want to try it, just a matter of making time), I'm ignorant on this. But it's not like you can just flip a switch and recompile a existing lazarus app to use fpGUI that was originally written for win32/gtk/kde style programming?

Lars wrote

Doesn't fpgui take a different approach to programming, so if you start a project in win32/gtk style, you can't easily port it to fpgui due to enormous differences here and there in the way gui programming is done..

As Greame pointed out there are two different things called "fpGUI". One is a GUI framework independent of the LCL and hence here you don't use the Lazarus IDE to design the GUI of the project but fpGUI's own designer tool. The other is the "fpGUI WidgetType" provided by the LCL.

I understand that the LCL-fpGUI currently is abandoned in an incomplete state of development.
(Greame pleas correct if I am wrong)

-Michael

Lars wrote

O However, how compatible are these widget sets with each other?

I understand that the "write once compile (and run) everywhere" paradigm of Lazarus suggests that all WidgetTypes you can use to (cross-) compile a project to run on a dedicated target (defined by processor / OS / Widget-Set infrastructure) should be "as compatible as possible".

Of course this is a goal that is not reachable to perfection and not all WidgetTypes will be4 complete enough for any

Lars wrote

So you weren't trying to imply that lazarus, could be recompiled to use fpgui based widgets inside the lazarus exe/elf itself?

The Lazarus IDE is just a project that can be compiled using fpc and the LCL library. It makes no difference whether using the IDE to compile it (or any project) or to compile from the command line using the appropriate flags.

-Michael

Lars wrote

Thanks for clarifying. I have always wanted to try fpGUI, but it's always the same fear that stops me: like msegui, the issue is there is no torry.net

Unlike MSEgui, fpGUI is much closer in widget design and usage to VCL and LCL. Myself and others have quite easily ported some VCL components to fpGUI with fairly little effort. Obviously the time it takes is dependent on how large that widget codebase is.

As for torry.net - last time I checked it was predominantly Delphi VCL components. So if you are using FPC and Lazarus LCL, you are still going to need some porting work.

Regards,
Graeme

Michael Schnell wrote

So I can't tell if FpGUI (i.e. the LCL-Version of same) is still available.

Yes it is still a option in Lazarus. The only thing that changed in newer Lazarus versions, is that they redesigned the compiler options dialogs (made them more complex, but more flexible). The widget type options are now only visible for LCL based applications too. See "Additions and Overrides", it's in the ComboBox drowpdown (LCLWidgetType) list, where you can select any of the available LCL widgetsets.

Regards,
Graeme

Lars wrote

Doesn't fpgui take a different approach to programming, so if you start a project in win32/gtk style, you can't easily port it to fpgui due to

If you are developing a LCL based application, you can simply toggle between the available LCL widgetsets. eg: LCL-GTK2, LCL-Win32, LCL-fpGUI etc. That is simply flipping a switch and you are done. But like I said in another reply, the LCL-fpGUI widgetset interface is not complete (it's alpha state, just like LCL-GTK3). So its not really an option for real-world applications yet.

The other option is to develop a "pure" fpGUI Toolkit application. This is where it doesn't use this cases you can't simply flip a switch and convert a LCL based application to a pure fpGUI Toolkit application. The benefit of pure fpGUI applications though, is that you get the full power of what fpGUI Toolkit has to offer and all the widgets it includes. Unlike LCL, fpGUI applications are truly 100% cross-platform in regards to all widget features, look and behaviour - so your applications never have any IFDEF's in them, or properties that only work in Qt, but not GTK2 etc. fpGUI applications and widgets are also themeable - independent of the operating system's theme. fpGUI also includes Lazarus IDE add-ons to register new project types for use with fpGUI, to make starting a new project so much easier.

You can obviously also use any Free Pascal FCL components with fpGUI applications, just like you can with LCL applications.

Regards,
Graeme

Michael Schnell wrote

Sadly in my compiled "trunk" version 1.7 on Linux the <"LCLWidgetType"> drop down menu is not shown any more :-(.

The redesign of Lazarus's compiler options dialog, is now dependent on the project type as well. So the LCLWidgetType combobox is only visible if you are working with a LCL application. If you have a Console or CGI or Web application open, then the LCLWidgetType combobox is not visible (as it wouldn't make sense in that project).

Regards,
Graeme

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

Myself and others have quite easily ported some VCL components to fpGUI with fairly little effort.

So it's sad that the results do not seem to feed the fpGUI WidgetType in the LCL :(

(Of course this is meant just as a statement not as a complaint towards yourself.)

-Michael

Lars wrote

However, how compatible are these widget sets with each other?

All LCL widgetsets (interfaces) are supposed to be 100% compatible. Lets take the simplest case. A new application with a single button on the main form. That will work no matter which LCL widgetset you use. Simply toggle the LCLWidgetType setting between LCL-Qt, LCL-GTK2, LCL-fpGUI and recompile, and the application will run without any code changes. They will all be LCL based applications, just they will use a different underlying (wrapped) GUI toolkit.

But as I mentioned, they are supposed to be 100% compatible, but in reality they are not. Some widgetsets support features others don't. eg: LCL-Qt supports MDI applications, but the others don't. LCL-GTK2 allows tabsheets with tabs on the right edge but text is still horizontal, other LCL widgets don't. LCL-Cocoa doesn't allow a Form.Color property change, but other widgetsets do. The list goes on. This is the major drawback of LCL - inconsistency across platforms and widgetset interfaces. Pure fpGUI applications (that don't rely on LCL) don't have this problem.

When working on a LCL application, also take a look in the Object Inspector window. There is a "Restricted" tab which lists features of each widget that works on some LCL interfaces but not on others. That list is not 100% complete either.

Regards,
Graeme

Lars wrote

Does ideU support multiple programming languages as an editor? Without trying it myself, for example, does it include multiple syntax highlighters?

Yes, ideU and MSEide support multiple syntax highlighters.

can you write your own syntax highlighter?

Yes, they are defined in *.sdef files and you assign them to file types in "Project Options -> Editor -> Source -> Syntax definition files".

although I heard that Martin sometimes does C development in mseide.

Correct, I believe Martin does Object Pascal and C development with MSEide.

Regards,
Graeme

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

The widget type options are now only visible for LCL based applications too.

I see. That was my fault.
Thanks,
-Michael

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

There is a "Restricted" tab which lists features of each widget that works on some LCL interfaces but not on others. That list is not 100% complete either.

Great !
With "TForm" I see General Widget Set Restrictions "1" "3" "1" and "12" together with some small pictures. No idea what this is supposed to mean.

(BTW.: it should be called "WidgetType Restrictions", as the "Widget Set" is external to the project and the features of same are not controllable by Lazarus).

-Michael

I updated the wiki page:

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/IDE_Window:_Compiler_Options#Changing_the_LCLWidgetType_in_Version_1.1_and_above

Mattias

Does ideU support multiple programming languages as an editor?

Yes, MSEide (and ideU) has syntax highlighter for Pascal, C, Python, Ipf, sql.
I am busy with a Java syntax highlighter.

Fre;D

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Many thanks ;-)

Hi,

Please continue further specific discussions about Lazarus and/or fpGUI in the fpc-other list and/or the Lazarus list, as a appropriate.

Thanks,

Jonas
FPC mailing lists admin