Hello,

I've noticed that few people use the FPC Forum and questions often stay months without answer. I would answer more questions, but monitoring 2 forums is too much work. We have already merged the wikis, what about merging the forums? I would propose merging into the Lazarus forum.

Not to mention that a lot of people post FPC questions in Lazarus forum, and if they were merged those could be easily moved to a appropriate sub-forum.

thanks,

Fine with me but is there a tool to merge the community site into the forum software used by lazarus?

We have already merged the wikis, what about merging the forums? I would propose merging into the Lazarus forum.

Why don't we make our own forum application using fpWeb (or Powtils or ExtPascal)? Specially dedicated for FPC and Lazarus users. It can be a showcase that pascal (FPC/Lazarus in this case) also can be used to build a web application. If we're so proud that our compiler can compile itself, why don't we create our own forum? ;)

This might be the right moment.

Florian Klaempfl wrote

Fine with me but is there a tool to merge the community site into the forum software used by lazarus?

How the community site is built? Does it uses own made engine or some well known?

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

Then it would be possible to make a userfriendly forum and to add useful functions.

In our previous episode, Paul Ishenin said:

Some netscape application server thingy iirc. Daniel installed and administered it mostly.

I'm all for merging, if only to get the standaard phpbb possibility to get a list of new msgs.

Then it would be possible to make a userfriendly forum and to add useful functions.

Of course, since we have all the source code that we are fluent at. :D Another thing is... it could also be a test suite for fpWeb both on performance and maintenance which both usually become main consideration when one choosing a framework and/or the language. ;)

If it is good it will may become an export hit.

Time?

From the other side it may would be a promotion for pascal and attract more developers...

Bee Jay wrote

Why don't we make our own forum application using fpWeb (or Powtils or ExtPascal)?

I think this is separate from what I proposed. We can do the merger now into the Lazarus forum, and when this pascal forum becomes as good as the Lazarus forum engine then we can open a new discussion about migrating to the pascal forum.

So not to loose our time we can merge to the lazarus forum first and then if someone appear with the native pascal forum solution we will create a site based on it and merge everything there :)

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.

if someone appear with the native pascal forum solution we will create a site based on it and merge everything there :)

Is there someone out there had done this (pascal forum)? AFAIK, I only knew one: Powtils forum (which is now closed). Honestly, I never used fpWeb because I was a Powtils user, and now an ExtPascal user. But if there's someone willing to start a new project for pascal forum then I'd like to join. :)

Time?

I believe I could make a basic forum application within a few days, in my spare time, using ExtPascal. But I myself don't think ExtPascal would be the correct tool to be used since it creates a non search engine friendly application (because of Ajax). I think fpWeb would be the best tool because it's provided by FPC and Lazarus (lazWeb), so we would have many people to be asked for if we're in trouble. :D

Marco van de Voort wrote

I'm all for merging, if only to get the standaard phpbb possibility to get a list of new msgs.

FWIW, you can also do that with the current community forum: log in, go to a forum's main page, and click at the bottom on "klik hier om een kennisgeving toe te voegen" ("click here to add a notification").

Jonas

The ExtPascal statement is not quite correct; you can perfectly make a search-engine friendly site, but you must cater for this when you start your design. It diminishes the speed slightly, but not so much that it hurts. A similar statement is true to get the back/forward browser buttons to work properly.

Michael.

History is repeating.
When we planned to move the lazarus forum the same discussion was started. It took months without result.
Building a proper forum is not something you do in a few days.

Marc

The ExtPascal statement is not quite correct; you can perfectly make a search-engine friendly site, but you must cater for this when you start your design. It diminishes the speed slightly, but not so much that it hurts.

Yes, I knew that, though I didn't like it. I still prefer using fpWeb as it's provided out-of-the-box by FPC/Lazarus so anybody interested with the source code, one doesn't need to bother download from third- party component provider.

When we planned to move the lazarus forum the same discussion was started. It took months without result.

Because not many people know how to build a web application using pascal. That's why I propose some of us who have experience with that to build one. This project can be used to promote pascal for web application development.

Building a proper forum is not something you do in a few days.

Yes, and it would take forever if no one dare to start it. ;)

Bee Jay wrote

Yes, and it would take forever if no one dare to start it. ;)

So Bee, register a project on SourceForge or GitHub and start coding. Maybe somebody will contribute at some stage. Like they said in some old movie: "Build it and they will come".

Regards,
- Graeme -

I like the idea!
When I see MonoDevelop and compare with Lazarus, I see that we need more ideas to the market. I see no problem in being more attractive to the market. I see no problem in bringing new fans to Lazarus. The tool is good. The FPC is mature. We need things that with a larger community would be easier.
It would be good for Lazarus / FPC with a large project as a forum or CMS made with our own tools:
- Lazarus/FPC
- Fpweb
- SpiderWeb
- ExtPascal
- Using OPF, Patterns, etc.

People see us. Learn how to work in a professional manner with a "new" Easter!

Companies see us!

The problem that this has to be a collective effort. I know we can not enforce it, do not want this! But we can support, we can agree that this way we would be positioning ourselves clearly in the market! This would dispel the idea that Pascal is a language of instruction.

We need those who can help not only those who want to help!

Thank you.
Regards to all.

(Using google translate)

2009/12/15 Graeme Geldenhuys :

[...]

We need those who can help not only those who want to help!

Yes, this is it. I don't have any experience in building web-applications with Pascal, but if someone registers a new project at Gitorious or somewhere else I would like to help as far as I can.

Matthias

I would be interested in this project. I have done web development with free pascal (using uncgi way back when and synapse recently).

Is there a lead or project admin for this? I don't have the time for that responsibility at the moment but would definitely be able to help with all the stages (from design to end maintenance) of the project.

Jason

Yes, this is it. I don't have any experience in building web-applications with Pascal, but if someone registers a new project at Gitorious or somewhere else I would like to help as far as I can.

As would I. I will soon need to write a CGI program, and this would be a great way.

If I made one, then I'll make it using Powtils (fully CGI) or ExtPascal (fully Ajax) because that's what I know and have been experience with. I myself prefer to use fpWeb since it's provided by FPC's FCL. No third party dependency is good for new comers, and it's also better FPC/Lazarus promotion. I also intend to study fpWeb and would try to combine it with ExtPascal, if possible.

Extpascal needs to be rewritten for that;
it's not possible to combine the two at the moment. ExtPascal only works with ExtPascal :(

Michael.

Powtils + FreeSpider ?

2009/12/16 Michael Van Canneyt :

FreeSpider http://www.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php?topic=7439.0 Powtils http://code.google.com/p/powtils/

2009/12/16 Osvaldo Filho :

Osvaldo Filho wrote

Powtils + FreeSpider ?

What do those have that fpWeb does not have ?
To my knowledge, PowTils is not even OOP...

Michael.

Hello.

A coincidence. Today at Club Delphi (Spanish community of Delphi developers) some body commented about Pascal Served Pages, which aims to create a server that allows to use Pascal as script language in a similar way than PHP. Actually the project is 'dead' (last release date is November 2004), is far to be complete and was developed with Delphi and Kylix. I'm tempted to study its current status and continue it by myself if possible. Currently it is part of the Nemesis Pascal Framework, in SourceForge's project named npascal.

Just for your information.

Regards.
Guillermo "Ñuño" Martínez.

I vote for a CGI approach (Then I could help). A sub-vote would go for fpWeb (Just need to find some good documentation for it), but I would accept Powtils.

Osvaldo Filho wrote

Powtils + FreeSpider ?

I'm currently using Powtils for our company CGI projects, but thinking of moving over to fpWeb in the new year, simply because I like to reduce 3rd Party dependencies, and Powtils seems rather abandonded. I'm still stuck on a locally modified 1.6.0.2 simply because 1.7.x is totally broken and hasn't been touched in the last year as far as I know.

So I would recommend going with something closer to home (part of FPC) - like fpWeb. This gives much better certainty that it will be continuously maintained - even if that only means no new feature but at least compilable with latest FPC.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Guillermo Martínez Jiménez wrote

developers) some body commented about Pascal Served Pages, which aims

If memory serves me well, Pascal Server Pages became Powtils or PWU and continued from there for a while. Powtils (or PWU - no idea what is the actual name) also supports template (server side) support like PHP or the old ASP from Microsoft.

Regards,
- Graeme -

The advantage of fpweb is that it doesn't matter whether you want to use an apache module, plain cgi or fastcgi, or in a standalone server. It works with all 4 types.

Michael.

Yes, that's also the main reason of mine to build a web forum using fpWeb, instead of Powtils or ExtPascal.

Michael Van Canneyt wrote

The advantage of fpweb is that it doesn't matter whether you want to use an apache module, plain cgi or fastcgi, or in a standalone server. It works with all 4 types.

That's good news! Can you explain more about what you mean by "standalone server"? One of our lightweight apps we are thinking of is a simple executable with built-in HTTP Server support (no Apache or other full featured HTTP servers required) - is that what you mean by "standalone server"? This 'lightweight' HTTP server application will be executed before the client access our CGI apps on localhost. I still have code lying around somewhere which is about 400 lines of code implementing a basic HTTP server that also supports CGI - it simply uses the available TCP support from FPC - no 3rd party components like INDY, lnet etc...

Regards,
- Graeme -

Well, fpWeb is winner, yes?
Bee can create a sourceforge project?

2009/12/17 Graeme Geldenhuys :

Joost van der sluis has developed a leightweight lnet server app, which you can use to debug the webserver modules. There is no reason why you could not use it in a production environment. You could even use his code to create a bridge between fpweb and your server app.

Michael.

Well, fpWeb is winner, yes? Bee can create a sourceforge project?

If it would use fpWeb then I refuse to be the project owner because I almost know nothing about fpWeb. I even intend to study fpWeb from this project. The project owner should be someone who knows how to build (at least) the application skeleton using the choosen framework as the base for further work by someone elses.

BTW, I prefer googlecode to host an open source project.

If it is going to be used for FPC, we can create a project on the FPC SVN server, this is not really a problem.

Michael.

project.

Why don't use Git this time? It's making code review and code merging from other sources a lot easier.

(Just my 2 cents)

project.

Why don't use Git this time? It's making code review and code merging from other sources a lot easier.

(Just my 2 cents)

The advantage of fpweb is that it doesn't matter whether you want to use an apache module, plain cgi or fastcgi, or in a standalone server. It works with all 4 types.

Is there any demo or documentation about them, especially the FCGI? I only saw CGI demos and very lack of documentation around fpWeb, CMIIW.

I've been spoiled by ExtPascal, and I love the CGI gateway and auto- shutdown feature of ExtPascal. Can a similar feature be implemented in fpWeb?

How about binding with JS framework for the browser side UI? Also the Ajax part. I propose fpWeb to support Google's Closure for that purpose.

Are they possible to be done with fpWeb? How much effort will be required to achieve it? Where should we start to work on it?

TIA.

Matthias Klumpp wrote

> server, this is not really a problem. Why don't use Git this time?

A. Because there no Git Server on the FPC SVN server.

It's making code review and code merging from other sources a lot easier.

I don't understand what you mean here.

Vincent

Vincent Snijders wrote

A. Because there no Git Server on the FPC SVN server.

Git doesn't need a server/daemon app to work on a server - anyway, git includes everything needed. Anyway, SourceForge and GitHub etc all support Git repositories with no problems - so we don't need to disturb the FPC SVN server.

> It's making code review and code merging from > other sources a lot easier. I don't understand what you mean here.

Use Git to find out. :-) Consequently, I agree with Mattias.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Bee Jay wrote

If it would use fpWeb then I refuse to be the project owner because I almost know nothing about fpWeb.

Well if you don't use it, you will never learn it. There seems to be 4 or so developers interested in this. ANYBODY, just create a damn repository and start coding - no point is talking about it and doing nothing.

Just so you know, I think the FPC based forum idea a nice idea (nice demo app), but I have no time for it.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

I agree with Mattias.

I didn't think Mattias commented on this thread. Do you mean Matthias, who suggested to use Git on the FPC svn server?

Vincent

Vincent Snijders wrote

I didn't think Mattias commented on this thread. Do you mean Matthias,

ah, spelling mistake from my side. Yes, I was agreeing with what Matthias Klumpp said.

who suggested to use Git on the FPC svn server?

Then we can't call it a FPC SVN server any more. :-) I really don't care where projects are created - I think SourceForge or GitHub are more visible and accessible by all. So that would be my first choice anyway.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Graeme Geldenhuys wrote

I really don't care where projects are created - I think SourceForge or GitHub are more visible and accessible by all. So that would be my first choice anyway.

I really don't care either. The most important thing now is that (at least) one person actually starts *coding* and making his source available. Where is not that important.

Vincent

Vincent Snijders wrote

The most important thing now is that (at least) one person actually starts *coding* and making his source available. Where is not that important.

I agree 100%.

Regards,
- Graeme -

Are you discussing about build Forum or CMS using fpWeb/pascal?

It is need use also CSS and JavaScript and Database.

This kind of projects take a long time with many security bugs need to fix it immediately, it is not like a local desktop application, and after that what the real profits?

For me, i like to see Pascal generate good web application, especially if it had Right To Left support :)

----- Original Message -----

Zaher Dirkey wrote

Are you discussing about build Forum or CMS using fpWeb/pascal?

I thought this message thread was about a Forum app implemented in fpWeb.

Regards,
- Graeme -

> > For me, i like to see Pascal generate good web application, especially > if it had Right To Left support :) What is right to left support?

Bidi support as e.g. semitic languages require.

Was "Field of Dreams" that long ago? Thanks Graeme, I don't think I felt quite as old before this. :-)

Lee Jenkins wrote

Was "Field of Dreams" that long ago? Thanks Graeme, I don't think I felt quite as old before this. :-)

Yeah, that was the movie I was referring too. :-) I just celebrated my 35 birthday, so now I feel very old (the downhill part is getting closer). But clearly your memory hasn't gone yet, because you remembered the movie's name. ;-)

Regards,
- Graeme -

http://groups.google.com/group/forpas/about

2009/12/18 Graeme Geldenhuys :

I'm not sure if forums are to be merged or not, but why not to start an FPC specific thread on Lazarus forum?

For example there're a lot of RTL/FCL specific subject, like this one: http://forum.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/topic,8272.msg39707/topicseen.html#new

The subject is not LCL related nor ideas, though located under: "Suggestion/Ideas -> LCL".
I wonder if it's possible to create a root thread "FreePascal -> General" or "Using FreePascal -> General" (or more specific -> "Bugs / Patches")

thanks,
dmitry

I see no problem in adding
Freepascal / Compiler
General
Rtl
Packages

(and maybe move databases)

Marc

In our previous episode, Marc Weustink said:

Textmode ide ? :-)