Hi all,

FPC has pretty usable support for web based development. Currently FPC supports it through CGI and Apache module. IMO, there's one more support that should be added officially: FastCGI. The initial work has been done by ExtPascal project. But, somehow I found it a bit problematic if it's compiled by FPC on non-Windows platform, especially with thread-related.

Hence, I now request for official support from FPC to provide FCGI framework as the third alternative for web based application development. Later, this official framework could be used as alternative FCGI framework for ExtPascal project.

What do you think? TIA.

-Bee-

I see no reason why this could not be done. Will you coordinate the efforts?

Michael.

I see no reason why this could not be done. Will you coordinate the efforts?

I'd like to help, especially on testing and bug fixing. But I don't think I have enough knowledge about threading and FCGI internal work. I need people who have the expertise on those 2 fields to do the initial work. ExtPascal author (Wanderlan) doesn't seem very interested to support non Windows platform as he mostly works on Windows (using Delphi).

I'm also quite active in ExtPascal project though mostly on testing and bug fixing but I don't do much on the real coding work. Some enhancement suggestions are also came as my request (CGI gateway, Mac support, enumeration, etc). I can help on the same things here.

-Bee-

http://cryp.to/publications/fastcgi/

I found the article shows very good reasons why we should start to work in or support FCGI instead of plain CGI. ;) While I'm using ExtPascal's FCGI, I can debug my FCGI app (using Lazarus) as if it's a normal desktop application. Something that I couldn't do when using Powtils. :)

-Bee-

Bee wrote

can debug my FCGI app (using Lazarus) as if it's a normal desktop application. Something that I couldn't do when using Powtils. :)

That sounds very handy!!! I also use Powtils for our CGI applications. What is the actual difference between FastCGI and CGI? Does FastCGI also work under most web servers?

Regards,
- Graeme -

_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

That sounds very handy!!! I also use Powtils for our CGI applications. What is the actual difference between FastCGI and CGI?

You may find all the differences within the article I posted above. But the most wonderful thing is FCGI lives forever since it's a separate application apart from the web server (which acts as an FCGI client).

Does FastCGI also work under most web servers?

FastCGI is indeed a forgotten treasure. It's not a new technology actually, most common web servers had supported it already though disabled by default (or requires additional installation). Since SAAS with very high load hits become common nowadays, people are starting to look at this technology, which IMO is very scalable. That's why some web frameworks/applications requires it (Ruby? Django?).

If your web server doesn't support FCGI, ExtPascal has a CGI-to-FCGI gateway that redirect a CGI request to an FCGI service independently (as long as web server supports CGI protocol).

-Bee-

Bee wrote

You may find all the differences within the article I posted above. But the most wonderful thing is FCGI lives forever since it's a separate application apart from the web server (which acts as an FCGI client).

I replied before I read the article. Yes the article explains the differences and reason well. Thanks.
I'm very keen to try FastCGI now, because database connections are the exact issue I have in standard CGI apps. And no, I am not in favour of going for Apache Modules as they are Apache version specific as far as I understand.

At the moment our standard CGI apps have to do exactly what the article says: read config files, parse session variables, establish a new DB connection, build the new page and quit. So far we have good performance as I am very specific with what I retrieve from the database and what goes into the HTML page, but we haven't tested our product on a heavier load.

FastCGI is indeed a forgotten treasure. It's not a new technology actually, most common web servers had supported it already though disabled by default (or requires additional installation).

We have a controlled deployment base and currently use Apache 2 under Linux and Windows. But looking on my local development machine, my Apache 2 only has modules for standard CGI (mod_cgi.so) and not FastCGI. :-( I'm using Ubuntu 7.10.

Regards,
- Graeme -

_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

I think any normal apache supports fastcgi out of the box ? Probably you just need to install another package?

Michael.

Michael Van Canneyt wrote

I think any normal apache supports fastcgi out of the box ? Probably you just need to install another package?

It wasn't as part of the default available modules, but a quick search in the apt repository revealed that I needed to install "libapache2-mod-fastcgi" package. Problem is now solved. :-)

Regards,
- Graeme -

_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

We have a controlled deployment base and currently use Apache 2 under Linux and Windows. But looking on my local development machine, my Apache 2 only has modules for standard CGI (mod_cgi.so) and not FastCGI. :-( I'm using Ubuntu 7.10.

If you need native FCGI support from the web server, you may start from here: http://code.google.com/p/extpascal/wiki/GettingStarted and read the "Setting using native FastCGI, only for Apache 2.2+" section on the bottom.

If you don't need native FCGI support, you may read the "Setting using FastCGI thru CGI gateway (any Apache version and similar procedure on IIS)" section on the same article above.

Personally, I prefer the later because I have better control over the CGI gateway and the FCGI service. Especially during development, you don't want to restart your web server each time you recompile and rerun your program. ;)

-Bee-

lNet has fastcgi support. Maybe it's interesting for you. It can connect to some server or spawn some itself. Implemented in lib/lfastcgi.pp.

It's used by lwebserver to provide a fastcgi connection to PHP backend. In lib/lwebserver.pp.

Micha

lNet has fastcgi support. Maybe it's interesting for you. It can connect to some server or spawn some itself. Implemented in lib/lfastcgi.pp.

I didn't know about this. I'll take a , what I need is *official* FCGI package from FPC as CGI and Apache module.

-Bee-

You indicated that some kind of fastcgi thing already exists for (free) pascal. Hereby I *officially* request that YOU coordinate efforts to get it integrated in FPC.

I can do some of the work (the gory programming details), but not all.

Michael.

You indicated that some kind of fastcgi thing already exists for (free) pascal.

So far, I only knew ExtPascal's FCGI. Just now, I knew that lNet had it too, though I still didn't know yet the details.

Hereby I *officially* request that YOU coordinate efforts to get it integrated in FPC.

Alright then. I got ExtPascal FCGI code though I'm not quite sure I understand it comprehensively, but I'd like to try. Then what effort I need to do to integrate it in FPC?

I can do some of the work (the gory programming details), but not all.

The most important support I need is to stabilize the ExtPascal's FCGI thread mechanism in all platforms, especially on non-Windows platforms. Though it works now, but I still found some problems and the current workaround looks hackish rather than elegant solution. While on the other side, I'm not quite an expert on FCGI and multithread programming (especially on non-Windows platforms) to confidently propose alternative solutions.

I also suspect that ExtPascal's current implemented multithread mechanism doesn't fit well on non-Windows platform. Maybe it's because the initial design is too Windows oriented. Multiplatform support added later through FPC (more or less because of my request). I'd be very grateful if there's someone who has expertise on UNIX multithread programming would like to analyze the ExtPascal's FCGI code. :)

Thanks for the support and encouragement, Michael. I appreciate it. :) BTW, it'd be nice if Morfik also supports FCGI. ;)

-Bee-

If you send me the relevant units, I'll have a look.

Thanks for the support and encouragement, Michael. I appreciate it. :) BTW, it'd be nice if Morfik also supports FCGI. ;)

Feel free to request it there and refer them to me ;-)

Michael.

If you send me the relevant units, I'll have a look.

You could get the FCGIApp.pas from
http://code.google.com/p/extpascal/source/browse/#svn/trunk

Our discussion brought us to:
http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=9016
http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=10815

Feel free to request it there and refer them to me ;-)

Unfortunately, I can't request it for free anymore. ;-)

-Bee-

I'll have a look during the weekend.

> Feel free to request it there and refer them to me ;-) Unfortunately, I can't request it for free anymore. ;-)

Nope. I had to buy Morfik too. luckily they lowered their prices significantly.

Michael.

I'll have a look during the weekend.

Thank you very much, Michael. :)

Nope. I had to buy Morfik too. luckily they lowered their prices significantly.

Does purchasing include Developer Assist support?

-Bee-

No, you have to pay extra, but at least if you purchased it, you get a reply to a mail.

Michael.

Bee wrote

Our discussion brought us to: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=9016 http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=10815

What about those bugs? Both are fixed/closed.

Jonas

> http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=9016 What about those bugs? Both are fixed/closed.

You said by yourself, it's an FPC bug.

-Bee-

Bee wrote

>> http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=9016 > What about those bugs? Both are fixed/closed. You said by yourself, it's an FPC bug.

Yes, but it's fixed in 2.2.2

Jonas

Yes, but it's fixed in 2.2.2

ExtPascal author claimed that it's still reproducable in FPC 2.2.2 and 2.3.1. Perhaps it's fixed but ExtPascal's multithreading mechanism is wrong somehow, or perhaps the other way around. I'm not sure.

-Bee-

Our discussion brought us to: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=9016 http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=10815

Also:
http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=11490
http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=11896

-Bee-

Bee wrote

> Yes, but it's fixed in 2.2.2 ExtPascal author claimed that it's still reproducable in FPC 2.2.2 and 2.3.1.

It is not. Just try the test programs in the test suite. There is however a related bug which has been fixed in 2.3.1 recently: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=13105

Also: http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=11490

That is a documentation bug, as far as I'm concerned (and unless extpascal uses only beginthread without endthread, it does not affect that framework).

http://bugs.freepascal.org/view.php?id=11896

That's unlikely to be the problem, since most people call x.free rather than an unqualified "destroy".

Jonas