http://tech.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1314993&cid=28818395

Pretty much no one suggests starting out with Pascal. :(

This got me thinking... Pascal used to be _the_ language to learn programming (although it's powerful enough not only for that, but for pretty much anything), so is there something that new languages like Python really have, that Pascal doesn't or is it just a matter of perception that "Pascal is dead" and "new is better"? Are there any real advantages in starting out with Python, Java, etc? What needs to be done to change that? For example, a better IDE, a better debugger, some sort of libraries and tools suitable for beginners? Or is it only marketing that we need? :)

And no, I didn't start with Pascal, although I love it. I started with BASIC on an 8-bit machine :)

Nikolay Nikolov wrote

This got me thinking... Pascal used to be _the_ language to learn programming...

The majority view is that Pascal is merely a teaching language. I think that's because early Pascal did have some missing features that proved to be frustrating for many. Especially because they were common in other languages at the time. More flexible I/O is the one I remember wanting the most. As well as better API's to the host OS.

In the 1975-1985 time frame there was also the Unix-based geek view that the only language implementation that produced decently efficient code was C. The was, and still is, a VERY widespread belief. The only Pascal commonly found at that time was UCSD-Pascal, an interpreted environment that was way ahead of its time but didn't interface with the host OS smoothly.

Turbo Pascal was wildly successful, of course, for a few years, but even at its highest point it was being undercut by C and C++.

There is also the fact that no popular OS or other major systems work has been done in Pascal. If a Pascal-based, MS-DOS compatible alternative OS had come around at the time Windows GUI was introduced it might have had a chance.

All those combined to conspire against Pascal's reputation.

A valiant effort was made to make Pascal the "approved" first language for teaching programming but even in that role Pascal was replaced by Java in the 1990's.

Borland's Delphi was the next big thing in the Pascal world and after a solid few years of popularity it is once again struggling.

FPC has helped enormously and is on the rise. So we may see a re-emergence sometime soon.

However, I wouldn't want to "fight the good fight" on Pascal's behalf at this point. Wasted effort, I think. But if trends change and some momentum increases, I'll be there. Always watching!

Nikolay Nikolov wrote

Are there any real advantages in starting out with Python, Java, etc?

Besides being fashionable? No.

Vinzent.