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Mailing lists / fpc-other / 2013-03

Re: [OT] Sven, don't defect to the dark side!

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Sven Barth

First and foremost: this is very offtopic, so I'm moving this over to fpc-other. If someone answers to my mail, then please ensure that you only answer to fpc-pascal. Thank you.

Reinier Olislagers wrote
Sad enough that you're almost no student anymore (presumably equals having to do real work instead of improving FPC and incidentally studying),

I'm really looking forward to the time I'm no student anymore. First I'm finally able to earn a nice amount of money and second I'll have regulated worktimes and don't need to use my free time (aka FPC time) to do homework or other things for university. This will finally be the time when the *real* fun on FPC development starts. :D

Show quoted text 5 lines
but this is really going to far ;) : http://www.reactos.org/archives/public/ros-dev/2013-March/016063.html Don't leave us - rather leave these C people to do whatever they do ;)

Where did I wrote that I'd leave FPC? If you'd read the ReactOS forums as well you'd know that I'm happily promoting that I'm a FPC developer when there is the chance... [Note: I'm aware that you're joking around, so don't take the "tone" of the previous paragraph to personally ^^]

Nevertheless I like ReactOS very much. I'm a huge fan of the NT kernel (just in case: I'm not talking about the Win32 API here) and one of my dreams would be a new NT subsystem written in FPC with an as much as possible Pascal userland (why do you think I implemented the NativeNT target?). And if you look at the projects they are suggesting for GSOC 2013 there are very nice ones between them. The ones I personally would consider myself able to implement (the SSH server and the GUI installer) could even be implemented in Pascal (though this wouldn't help the ReactOS devs). So while this leaves out the GUI installer a SSH server for Windows and ReactOS could nevertheless be implemented independently of GSOC and the ReactOS project as a Pascal open source project... Things that I'd also like to see for ReactOS would be a port of DDEkit which would allow the usage of Linux drivers (compiled from source) on a NT system and just because "I could" a port of ReactOS to m68k (this would need some more work though than "just" porting the OS, e.g. patching the binutils and maybe gcc...).

But there is also another side of the story though this is not related to the mail linked above: As my current company has (again) decided to move away from Delphi (to .Net with C#) I myself will very likely change my workplace at the end of my study as well. And the company I plan to work for is developing their own realtime microkernel operating system though they are working with C++. But they are also supportive of my work with FPC. The boss originally developed in Pascal as well and during the time I wrote my bachelor thesis for them two years ago I managed to port FPC natively to their POSIX layer as the first compiler ever. :) And I'll at least try if I could get a bit of time a week to be paid for work on FPC. And who knows... maybe I'll someday rewrite their kernel in Pascal :P
Also it might be useful to use a different language for work than for hobby: you learn to appreciate your main language more (or in case of C++ more importantly the IDE...).

And to close this mail I'll misuse the famous quote of an even more famous half-Vulcan:

I was and always shall be: a Pascal programmer.

Regards,
Sven

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ListMember
to Sven Barth
Show quoted text 5 lines
Nevertheless I like ReactOS very much. I'm a huge fan of the NT kernel (just in case: I'm not talking about the Win32 API here) and one of my dreams would be a new NT subsystem written in FPC with an as much as possible Pascal userland (why do you think I implemented the NativeNT target?).

I am not sure if you're aware of ClassiOS (
http://www.trumpet.com.au/index.php/products/classios.html ).

I was, at the time, quite excited about it; but, unfortunately he (Peter Tattam) had some problems in his private life --IIRC, a very dragged-on divorce suite that laid claim to his code too. Apparently, even though he managed to /salvage/ his code, I heard nothing to write home about ClassiOS' ever since.

He didn't open up the source either. I wish he would happen to read this and fill us in with the missing details..

So; while I do appreciate what ReactOS guys are doing, I just cannot see that project to be reasonably useful anytime soon.

Anyway.

What I would kill for would be a non-GUI version of Windows (preferably x64) that we could compile and run on (most/some of) the platforms FPC runs as servers.

This, IMO, would be a great achievement.

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Florian Klämpfl
to Sven Barth: First and foremost: this is very offtopic, so I'm moving this over to fpc-other. If…
Show quoted text 7 lines
I'm really looking forward to the time I'm no student anymore. First I'm finally able to earn a nice amount of money and second I'll have regulated worktimes and don't need to use my free time (aka FPC time) to do homework or other things for university. This will finally be the time when the *real* fun on FPC development starts. :D

You would be the first person were this wishful thinking comes true :-)

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Sven Barth
to ListMember: I am not sure if you're aware of ClassiOS ( http://www.trumpet.com.au/index.php/products/c…
"ListMember" wrote
> Nevertheless I like ReactOS very much. I'm a huge fan of the NT kernel

(just in case: I'm not talking about the Win32 API here) and one of my dreams would be a new NT subsystem written in FPC with an as much as possible Pascal userland (why do you think I implemented the NativeNT target?).

[snip]

So; while I do appreciate what ReactOS guys are doing, I just cannot see

that project to be reasonably useful anytime soon.

It's running rather well already on emulators. And on some hardware it already works as well. In the last years it gained USB and WiFi support (WEP only for now). So it's progressing rather well and the community is big enough that it won't just die.

Also ReactOS is to Windows what Linux and Minix were to Unix: an open source alternative. Alone because of that it deserves support.

Additionally it already can run FPC and Lazarus. :)

What I would kill for would be a non-GUI version of Windows (preferably

x64) that we could compile and run on (most/some of) the platforms FPC runs as servers.

ReactOS can be started in a headless mode (or at least it could be). It will then start the GUI only if a GUI application is encountered.

Regards,
Sven

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Sven Barth
to Florian Klämpfl: You would be the first person were this wishful thinking comes true :-)
"Florian Klämpfl" wrote 12 lines
Sven Barth schrieb: >I'm really looking forward to the time I'm no student anymore. First >I'm >finally able to earn a nice amount of money and second I'll have >regulated worktimes and don't need to use my free time (aka FPC time) >to >do homework or other things for university. This will finally be the >time when the *real* fun on FPC development starts. :D You would be the first person were this wishful thinking comes true :-)

I'm an optimist. And also there's always a first time :P

Regards,
Sven

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Sven Barth
to Luca Manganelli: I am curious about this: why are you a huge fan of NT kernel? (in a programmer view)

Am 13.03.2013 08:13 schrieb "Luca Manganelli" <

Show quoted text 8 lines
: On 12/3/2013, Sven wrote: > I'm a huge fan of the NT kernel I am curious about this: why are you a huge fan of NT kernel? (in a programmer view)

The NT kernel was originally designed to be a microkernel, traces of which can still be seen in its structure today. Also the subsystem concept is a still used remnant if this.
Like on Unix systems the NT file system is single rooted (and case sensitive), but unlike Unixes the Root is an object based non persistent hierarchy (in NT everything is an object). Also filesystems are automatically useable through their partition object, e.g. \Device\HarddiskVolume1\Windows\explorer.exe.
Also supported are various local and remote IPC mechanisms.

This sums it up basically :)

Regards,
Sven

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ListMember
to Sven Barth: (just in case: I'm not talking about the Win32 API here) and one of my dreams would be a…
Sven Barth wrote 11 lines
It's running rather well already on emulators. And on some hardware it already works as well. In the last years it gained USB and WiFi support (WEP only for now). So it's progressing rather well and the community is big enough that it won't just die. Also ReactOS is to Windows what Linux and Minix were to Unix: an open source alternative. Alone because of that it deserves support. Additionally it already can run FPC and Lazarus. :)

:)

These are almost verbatim what I tell other people about ReactOS.

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Sven Barth
to Paul Breneman: ... Can you provide any more details or links?
Paul Breneman wrote 6 lines
Sven Barth wrote: ... > ReactOS can be started in a headless mode (or at least it could be). It > will then start the GUI only if a GUI application is encountered. Can you provide any more details or links?

In theory it should be sufficient to add the parameter "/CONSOLE" to the options command line in C:\freeldr.ini, but this does not work anymore (tested with a ~1 week old trunk version). I've looked a bit through the code of win32csr and the code for switching between CLI and GUI is still in place, but it seems that the start of WinLogon is the problem (which will create the desktop object, etc)... I've not yet managed to employ the correct registry changes to not start WinLogon (and also not crash the system), so I can't comment any further... :(

Regards,
Sven

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Paul Breneman
to Sven Barth
Sven Barth wrote 19 lines
On 13.03.2013 13:54, Paul Breneman wrote: > Sven Barth wrote: > ... >> ReactOS can be started in a headless mode (or at least it could be). It >> will then start the GUI only if a GUI application is encountered. > > Can you provide any more details or links? In theory it should be sufficient to add the parameter "/CONSOLE" to the options command line in C:\freeldr.ini, but this does not work anymore (tested with a ~1 week old trunk version). I've looked a bit through the code of win32csr and the code for switching between CLI and GUI is still in place, but it seems that the start of WinLogon is the problem (which will create the desktop object, etc)... I've not yet managed to employ the correct registry changes to not start WinLogon (and also not crash the system), so I can't comment any further... :( Regards, Sven

Thanks Sven. I'd like to try using ReactOS on headless embedded systems. Here is my current page on ReactOS:
http://www.turbocontrol.com/reactos.htm

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